She Turned Her Pain into Music: Kemy Music on Her Debut Single African Woman - ep 34

[00:00:13] Hi everyone, welcome to Talking Tech With Creatives. I'm Stella Oni, your host. We have an exciting time today because normally with the podcasts, for those that have been listening consistently, I have spoken to different industry experts, creatives from film to platforms, to business, to real estate.

[00:00:43] I've done so many. And because for me, creativity is everywhere. When I started the podcast, I didn't even know that, but creativity is everywhere. We are creatives as humans and we put our creativity in different industries, different ways. So today, you know, I spoke to some, I would say some months back or about a year ago, I spoke to a designer, a wedding dress designer, Yomi Kosiba.

[00:01:12] And it was amazing to actually speak to a creative who, at that time, was actually experimenting with technology in his couture design. And I've actually gone a long way towards doing that. So I'm going to have Yomi back to come and talk about how he's using AI as part of his creative process.

[00:01:31] I know there's a lot of, a lot of talk and backlash around AI use in creativity, especially because of so many aspects, but there's quite a lot of, there's a separation to this. There's the use of AI as a means to market, as a means to speed up your time and so many other things.

[00:01:53] And then there's your original creativity. For me, I'm a creative, I'm an author, I'm a writer, and my writing comes from so deep within me that I could not imagine something writing that for me, something generating that. This is my own personal view. So I use technology tools. We have in the writing world, we have a lot of technology tools that we use to assist editing. So that is my say on a lot of the things that are going on out there, just a little bit.

[00:02:23] So today, like I said, I've got another creative. Her name is Kemi Abafemi, and she's a lyricist. She writes music and she sings, and she brought out a debut song, single, recently. She brought it out in April. So I listened to it. Funny enough, I fell in love with it, and I thought I had to listen to her because I wanted to speak about independent creativity.

[00:02:50] As a singer, musician, she knows about, and she knows a lot about technology as well. She was quite excited when I reached out to her. So we're going to have an amazing time today just listening to creativity and technology through music. And I will be playing her music in between these. So you'll be hearing a bit of the simplest of the music.

[00:03:28] So Kemi, welcome to Talking Tech, the creative podcast. I'm so happy you came. Tell us about yourself. I want you to start from the beginning. Okay, thank you very much, Stella. I feel really excited to be here. Yeah, I'm Kemi, Kemi Abafemi, but my artist's name is Kemi Music because I love not just writing songs, I also to create the whole body of work.

[00:03:55] And for me, music started for me right from when I was a child. Everybody would say, oh, it started from when I was a child. But I didn't start singing when I was a child. I just loved listening to music. Trust me, I always had earbuds in my ears right from when we had the whole Dix Man. I think we had this little radio. I don't know what it's called then, now. Right from when it went to the Dix Man, it went to the iPods.

[00:04:24] It went to like, then when I had phones where you could no listen, all I did was listen. And I think having to go through the listening process and now started singing. Then when I wanted to sing, I started off from church. And I think from church, my writing process now started because I happened to lead the choir. Because I've been listening and I see how it's done and how music can be better in church.

[00:04:54] So I started off as a music director. So, yeah, then I started writing songs for the choir to sing. Yeah, so, yeah. And when I was done with university, honestly, I never knew I was going to do music. If I need to be very honest. And with time, I still just continue listening. Now, for me, music is quiet. I'm very universal when it comes to my writing. I listen to everything. Every. So it's not just the old Afro thing.

[00:05:23] But I love my roots. I love my culture. I love where I'm from. So if I'm going to release anything that has to do, any sound that has to do with, for me, that must come from my roots. And trust me, I love Fela a lot. I've listened to all his songs. I heard Fela. You friends are going to ask her about Fela. I could hear Fela there. Yeah, I guess.

[00:05:47] And if you listen to the African woman, you can have a sense of the, there's a Fela kind of sound. Yeah, the Afro, the real Afro is inside. So, yeah. So for me, and I would also say that my life in music has been like, how would I put it?

[00:06:07] It's been a graph going up and down because, you know, a female artist, not just a female artist, as a woman growing up in a country where you're not supposed to be doing music to start with. Because if you're doing music, you see that you're wayward or you don't have your priorities rights. So for me, it was just church. I had to get married pretty early. I had kids.

[00:06:35] Then everything, everything music stopped. But later on, music started over again when I went through, I was going through a very abusive, abusive marriage. So music was the only thing that gave me purpose. So, and I started writing again and music actually even brought me out of that toxic magic that I needed to come out. Yes.

[00:07:03] So I would say in summary that music has always been my safe space and up to now is still my very safe space. So, yeah. Fantastic. I hope I'm beginning to just summarize my life. You did. You did. Let's go back because I told you that even though I always have all this list of questions, I don't follow it through. So when you say your earlier part, because you're based in Britain now. So that was back in Nigeria.

[00:07:32] Because the outlook to music in Britain is, of course, different from the outlook of music to music in Nigeria. So it was back in Nigeria. Back in Nigeria. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you still believe that outlook still stands in terms of music? I'm curious.

[00:08:16] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like back in Nigeria. I think it's back in Nigeria. That the outlook to music, if you were put music first, you were seen as the way you were. Do you think that outlook still stands? Oh, no. Oh, sorry. I didn't understand the context. No, no. That's all right. It doesn't. You're right here.

[00:08:43] Even at my work, I have my colleagues who are white and they'll be like, they're trying to sing my song. Like, I had my friend Holly said, I'm not an African woman, but it was really very funny. She said, oh, that the trip is so much love here, even though it's not really out there. But it's a lot of love here, yeah. You put it out here. Yeah. The love of creativity.

[00:09:10] They are not all about just your work, but what can you do outside your work? Who are you as a person? So if you're a singer, oh, we want to hear more of you. So I actually still, I sing in church here. I'm also a worship leader in church here too. Yeah. So they want more of you compared to back in Nigeria. And again, here, back in Nigeria, if you, it's either you do gospel or you do circular or you're in between. Okay.

[00:09:39] So it splits between what is considered gospel music and then secular music. So you are in that. Yeah. But when I was in Nigeria, the moment I started doing, I started writing my songs and all, even though love songs and all, church people just felt, no, you cannot be doing that and doing this. But here, they want you to keep doing what you're doing because, yeah, because you're creating. But still in your creativity, you still have time for God.

[00:10:08] So who also gave you that gift? So they don't mind. Yeah. Yeah. It comes from God. Okay. So the question I want to ask is with African women, with your music, you know, so you came and you decided to now put African women out. What made you record? For me, it's a very powerful music. You know, like I said, I detected fell out there. So the question I'm asking is what made you decide that I now I've got this music.

[00:10:36] I've sang it and I want to put it out there. What is that decision point? Oh, okay. Firstly, before I answer the question and tell you the story behind it, I would say myself and my producer and even the team Sundays that were trying to help me promote the song, they didn't want me to put that song as my first debut. Oh, yeah. But I was very biased. I said, I am very biased about the song. Even my producer didn't. Maybe because it's about African women.

[00:11:06] It's about her resilience, her power, who she is. Because the verse too talks about. There's a line in the song that says, Oberyn Lagwa Raju Kiniwulo. You understand? I saw it. And before you continue, Kiniwulo, because I'm Yoruba. Yeah, Yoruba. Kiniwulo is lion. Yeah. Yeah. And the fierce. Yeah, Kiniwulo is lion. Because I like that mix of indigenous. When you speak English and then you mix me, I'm an Afro. I love. Yeah. So, Oberyn Lagwa Raju Kiniwulo, can you tell us what it means?

[00:11:37] Yeah. So, for me, I would say that what has inspired the song was my story. And seeing every single thing I've been through, I've had to go through every form of abuse. I tell you, every form of abuse. Ego, emotional, mental. Like, every form of abuse. And I know that there are a lot of women. A lot of women.

[00:12:06] Mm-hmm. You understand? My mom includes, you know, not just being a Nigerian woman, being an African woman. Now, it's not worse for you. An African woman with a dream. What you have to, like, you have to break tables. You have to keep moving forward. People are going to call you names. People are going to look down on you. There are rooms you can't enter because you are supposed to. For me, who was married before, they're going to be like, oh, she just left at home.

[00:12:34] Nobody knew what I was going through. That inspired me to write that song. It inspired me. I'm so happy you did. I'm so happy you did. I said, I'm going to be a voice. Every woman who has a dream, who wants to keep moving forward. You are a superstar. You are a superstar. You don't need to be singing. But in your own field, you are a superstar. And I'm going to be that voice. You're beautiful. Yes, because some people say after childbirth, you're like my ex-husband. You tell me that I'm a second hand.

[00:13:04] No man will be you. Nobody will be you. And I know that's what other women go through. And I said, you know what? I'm going to put this into a song. I'm going to be a voice. And that inspired the song. You understand? So if you go through, if you listen to the song, go through from the lyrics, the beauty, the endowment of a woman. And when she walks into the room, her confidence, her resilience. If you hear a story, you hear a story of courage, of resilience, of power. What she's had to go through to get to where she is.

[00:13:34] Regardless of the obstacles, the challenges, the light throws at her, she's still standing. The reason we are, Hughes. Powerful. Yeah, there's a reason we're always smiling. You understand? When you see a woman who is broken or not, you should know that as another woman, you should be the one to lift her up. So I just believe that this song should be my first single before any other song comes in. I want people to know where I'm coming from.

[00:14:03] I want people to know that I'm speaking for every other woman, not just Nigerian women.

[00:15:02] That's my roots. Oh, that is powerful. That is so powerful. And I felt it. I felt it in that song. That's why I just looked at you and I said, I must speak to her. I must reach out to her because this song touched me and I want to speak to her. I want her to come on it. So now let's talk about your inspiration, Fela. How did Fela come into this? I just, I'm curious about that. Your influence, how that shapes you creatively.

[00:15:31] I would say that, you know, I've listened great. My dad used to play, he plays Sonia Day, he plays Ebenezer Obey. My, save my background. Yeah. I grew up with music. Yeah. Yeah. But the moment I heard Fela, there was just something different. You made me hear Fela. I was trying to do that. I was trying to do that. But trust me, those, for me, those were my foundation actually.

[00:16:02] So musically listening, those were my foundation. But Fela stuck with me to the point that even when I was in university, I was always playing his songs. Like I said before, I was not singing at the time. Listening. I was like, I was, I keep hearing my mind. Like a database. Like a database. I was collecting data, even though I didn't know what I was going to do with it. But he's the real Afro.

[00:16:30] If you look at from the Whiskey to the Bonoboy, David O doesn't really accept it. We all know. The influence is there. No Bonoban. They can never deny that. That influence is there. They can never. But then another thing too, that's with all the music that I've heard over the years, Fela speaks the truth. It does. So that's, that's. Uncompromising truth. Yes. It doesn't. Regardless, he will speak the truth and he put it in a song.

[00:16:59] That inspires me. Yeah. Sometimes when I see how he pieces the words together, I'll be like, what was this man thinking? Yeah. It was an activist and all, but he still makes sure he put it in a song. And for me, that's what my music is all about. I want to be able to be a voice for the voiceless. I want to let people know that I see them. I know what you're going through and whatever it is, I can put it into a song.

[00:17:26] Like yesterday, my best friend, he told me, she said, come. She was teasing me. She said, all the relationship you've been in, you've always written songs about all this me. You have never written a song about me. And I'm like, really? I thought, I said, you deserve for me to sing, to write a song about you. And I thought about it. I spent two hours writing a song and I came up with a very beautiful song last night. And like I said, and I sent it to her and she's been crying since.

[00:17:56] And I said, yeah. Yeah. And I said something. So back to what I was saying, Fela speaks the truth. He embodies it and he's very creative. Now, another thing I like about Fela, there was one documentary I watched about him. You know he studied here in England, right? Yes, he did. He did. And how he pieces the different, apart from just Afro, he pieces those different genres

[00:18:22] and he created something so amazing that even to today, nobody has been able to recreate the best we can do. It's original. Original. Original. Just, we can just pick out of it. And for me, I try to make sure that I piece so many genres together to make something very beautiful. Right now, I'm actually working on so many different sounds and with time, they're going to be out there. So it's just like an amazing inspiration to, for me.

[00:18:52] So your producer didn't want you to bring out African Woman first. What was it they wanted you to bring out first? I'm curious. They wanted me to, yeah. There's this song that's very, I'm a piano-ish, Afro, Afro house, very danceable so that everybody can be there. And there's another song. There's another song. It talks about being in a very compromising place in love and you're trying to, you're trying to get the person to make up their minds and all. He was quite biased about that song.

[00:19:22] So he was like, probably that song should be the first because lots of maybe young people might relate to it because these days relationships are quite complicated compared to before. But I told him something. I said, this song is the first song I'm listening. So this is the one that speaks to you. This is the one you want to bring to? This one speaks to me first. I even, do you know, I had that, I had an owner, the owner of one of these radio stations in back Nigeria. And when I sent my songs to him because he's someone that I respect in the industry,

[00:19:50] when he listened to it, he was like, how would you want to drop African woman as your first? I said, this is what I want to do. He said, okay, fine. Just, you're the artist. So do it. And I'm happy I did. If I did not, you probably wouldn't be talking to me right now. There's no way because you'd have sounded like everybody else. The idea for me is what people don't understand is, first of all, be authentic. Yes. If you want to be generic, then you have, you need a big label behind you who are going

[00:20:19] to push you out there, do everything. But if you're starting out, be yourself first and attract the people that want that. If the next Kemi music comes out now, I will listen to it. Yes, you're right. But if it was generic, then you are sounding like everybody else. How am I going to distinguish you from everybody else that is out there? Not that there are that many, because you have the big, you have big artists. I'm going to come to that. Female artists, African artists, and then nothing.

[00:20:49] That's when I realized that it's, oh, there's a lot of tiwasavages of this world, tames of this world. And then I look behind and I don't see anybody coming up. I think that's why I was attracted to you as well, that, oh, there's someone coming up who is singing. You just, it's like from there and then nothing at the bottom. You were right in putting your feet down because it's important to just let people know and recognize you first.

[00:21:16] And then you can bring out more commercial music because that's what they're looking for. More commercial music, yes. Yes. But more commercial music requires, like creativity is different from marketing. So it requires something different. All kinds of music requires something different because one is what you've done. The other one is the awareness and the distribution and the marketing and all that. They are two different things. So maybe they're looking for something that will strike people, will go popular. But it's like the lottery. It's like the lottery.

[00:21:45] So first of all, have your core listeners around you. Like Asha, for example. I like Asha. And I'm one of her people that listen to her. And I'm sure that's how she developed. She developed a core group of people that liked her particular kind of music. And then she got popular. So that's it. So when you talk about your producer, so the process of producing African women in the UK. Talk me through a little bit. Not too long, but just the process.

[00:22:14] Because you were talking about having a team, a community around you in Nigeria. And you were talking about a different process here. So I just wanted to see what the process was. The difference was. Yeah, yeah. It's DIY. DIY. Okay. Yeah, yeah. It's DIY. DIY. So I have a studio here at home. But I also have my producer back in Nigeria. I have one here. But like I said, life here is different compared to Nigeria.

[00:22:42] So we get to work together. So he makes... I create a voice. Then he creates the beats. We make it together. Yeah. Really, the beats, the sounds together. And he mixes and masters for me. So that's it. So that's the creative process we have. Because I have a studio here in the house. When I have a sound and all, I would have recorded it. Then I'll send him to listen.

[00:23:09] If he wants to remake the sound, then we'll look at it together. Because in the creative process, it's always a lot of back and forth. Because when I hear a sound, I'll be like, no, remove that one. No, remove this one. No, it's not. We're not aware. Or sometimes I might have a sample of what I want. And I'll send it to him. Okay, I want you to... Don't replicate this. I want you to make it better. So that's how we create it. For African woman, if I tell you that,

[00:23:40] African woman is not as new. It's not a new song. I tried to write African woman, I think, six years ago. I wrote it six years ago. But I had to write it all over again. Because it came... I'm in a different place. And I had to rewrite it. And we created something very beautiful. You did. Absolutely. So I'm going to now go to music in general. You're singing. Yeah.

[00:24:08] And female artists out there. And I'm not going to be worldwide. Because it's huge. But I want to focus on Africa. Yeah? So artists. So why is... Why do we have such disparity? That disparity where you have the female artists, the one that have started out and have gone big. And then just... You cannot... I can't... It's very hard to discover up-and-coming female artists. And I don't know what your own journey is, what you think about it, and what your plan is.

[00:24:38] Because, of course, you want to succeed. Do you see what I mean? You have to succeed. So there's no... You understand. We can't be modest about this. If you've got something out there, we want a lot of people to know about it. Right? So why do you think you have this well-celebrated African artists out there, the female artists, and then just seems to be there... There seems to be nothing at the bottom. Okay. So I would... So this is what I'm going to say, based on my experience.

[00:25:04] So in Nigeria and Africa, when it comes to the Afro sound, even as an artist, remember then when I used to... I used to write songs. No, I didn't mention earlier. I used to write songs for different artists at some time when I moved... When I eventually moved to Lagos. So you do not... It's not easy. You have more male gender in mostly Afro beat.

[00:25:34] Yes. You don't find ladies. And again, ladies don't really do... Apart from maybe just love songs. And if you're very good, you might be able to maybe try your hands on... Like someone like Niniolla, at the time she tried, what they call it, Afro House, and it worked for her because she was singing Yoruba on the song. It's very... I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's... What I've noticed in the industry that it's very difficult

[00:26:05] for a female... for a female to be very universal. Ooh. Yes. But you are only... If you become... If you are very universal, you will find people who are willing to put their monies down to promote you. It's not very common. Now, if you look at the lives of Yemi Aladei, I know the story of Yemi Aladei. I know the story of Tiwa. Tiwa Savage, she's someone like... She's someone that I really look up to. She was someone who inspired me also

[00:26:33] to go into music. Yes. And if you look at their story, Tiwa Savage ventured into Afro... Afrobeat because she was quite versatile. She sings, but she's flexible. And she was willing to learn. Savage would get... We got that because I worked with a songwriter who was very close to her. Get a lot of songwriters. Even Yemi Aladei does that. Get a lot of songwriters. Create like a boot camp

[00:27:03] with different Afrobeat songwriters who are mostly males and help and say, I want to do this music. This is what I want to do. And get inspired and they create amazing hits. The collabs. She does a lot of collabs. Not just collabs. You get now... Or learning. Yeah. I happened to be in Maven's at some point before it became Maven's Global. And I see her... Sorry. Who? I said, I happened to be in Maven's Global. I worked closely with one of their songwriters

[00:27:32] in Maven's Global. Maven. Maven's Global. Maven records. Yeah. Maybe. We don't... We're not from the music world. So you have to... Yeah, I understand. So, yeah. Who are they? The Donjazi. Maven records. Donjazi. I know Donjazi, but I didn't know what Maven records are. I know. I even... Yeah. Yeah. I remember speaking to Obiasika who was started from music and all that. But, you know, like... I don't know. I don't know the name. So, Maven music is Donjazi.

[00:28:02] Donjazi. Okay. So, it's... And look at what they've done with Aria Star. They've had to... They groom all this... Now, what they do... I think when it became Maven Global, what they had to do... Because I think I spoke with one of their executives at the point when I was pitching to be one of their songwriters and they said, oh, that they have an academy now where they groom... Yeah. Where they... Where they develop. Okay. They develop, yeah. And they'll try to see if... So, if you see a female who can... who can be universal,

[00:28:32] who can die, who can do anything, they will put money on you because they see that, okay, that's good. So, I would say that being a female artist, it's not easy to do Afrobeat, to do... to be that. You understand? So, that's why you see the likes of T.Y. Savage is all... Yeah. Yemela Day... Yemela Day is an African mama. Mama Africa. She chose her own... She has her own spin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, if you have people... So, for the younger ones, some people who just want to maybe just stay

[00:29:02] on alternate music, alternate music, just the Afro, like them cine... Afro soul, she went into Afro fusion. Afro fusion is just made, you know, that song together or Afro R&B, Afro... All sorts. So, there's different... So, in writing, we call it... I write crime fiction. We call it genre and subgenre. So, I didn't know that. So, you have Afro beat at the top and then all that that you have all this fusion going on. You have the other one. You have the alternate music

[00:29:30] that you enjoy their music but they are not like out there. It's not easy being a female artist, especially when you're trying to break into a male-dominated industry. Now, with T.Y. Savage and ask her how it's been. It's... She would have been fighting against all sorts. Yes, because there was a time everyone thought her career was done but... Really? Yeah, but she's just getting started. Yeah. Yeah, like I said,

[00:30:00] she's also a very big inspiration for me. She's one woman that if I meet, I really hope to meet her someday but I'll tell her that, hey, thank you for not giving up because you gave people like us the hope that it's possible because she joined the industry over 30. So, because in the industry you'll be thinking, oh, if you're maybe from 22, 21, 22, that's when you're still in your prime, that's when it's the right time to pursue your dream

[00:30:29] if you want to do music. It's an African woman but she broke that and she broke the barrier and yeah, giving people like us hope. Yeah. Yeah, because I followed her journey and I've listened to quite a few of her interviews. I know she started music quite early but then she moved to Nigeria. She was in the UK. Yeah. She was in the US. I think. She was in the US. She was somewhere anyway. She was in the US. She was a backup for Whitney Houston. Yeah, so she was somewhere.

[00:30:58] She was out of Nigeria, out of Africa. I don't know why I thought she was in the UK but I'll check. So, if I had the US or the UK, you'd know more. She speaks more of American. She's more American than... I thought she was I could have I thought she was in the UK. I'm going to check. She went to Nigeria. Yeah, you can look that. I'm going to check. I'm going to check. The TWA subway starts from the UK. For some reason, I thought she started did.

[00:31:27] Let me see. For reasons, she was born in Lagos but she moved to London at 11. Okay. Her early music journey really began deep beginning in the UK. I followed her journey. Yeah. She went to school there, studied accounting at the University of Kent. Worked briefly at Royal Bank of Scotland and started singing backing vocals as a teenager

[00:31:57] including for George Michael. Yeah. She started in the UK. She started in the UK. I followed her journey. I followed her journey. I skipped that part when she was younger. Wow. Yeah, when she was younger. Yeah. And it was when she wanted I think she wanted to really break into music that she now moved to Nigeria. Yeah, she said her mum told her that you have to go back to where you came from. Yeah. And that's when she did an excellent job. So we are now establishing the fact that it's so difficult

[00:32:26] to break into music if you're female. So is that because of gatekeepers? What is it? Because you are starting out independence and you're not going to mind anybody. You're going to follow your path. Yeah? Yeah. Do you feel that? Because we talk about how difficult it is. I'm an author and I know how difficult it had been breaking into being an author, being a crime fiction author. We don't have we now have up and coming African women

[00:32:55] or women from African background or females, black females that are writing crime fiction. Yeah. But I still know that many. So what I'm saying is that you say it's difficult to break it. So it's difficult to succeed to make it big. It's a different thing than... Because I thought the entry level makes it easier for a female artist to start out just as you started out. What I'm saying is that putting music out of what I thought

[00:33:24] was easier now more than ever with technology. No, it's easier now with technology. No, you were asking about how it was. But it's not how it is. Yeah, I think that was... So how we have it now? You're wondering... I think the question you asked was why is it that this was how it is and there are no... Yeah. But to... But this day to now it's very easy even with technology you can... Just the same way it is. I'm in my house. I can produce. I can upload.

[00:33:54] Make a few content and my music is out there. Get a distribution company. So these days if you have a good community if you put out your work as an artist as an independent artist and you have your work out there and you've built momentum which means you've been consistent for a very long time and you have your community you can build up from there the right people and now we have the algorithm which is very good in most of all the social... Sorry? The algorithm. Okay, the algorithm.

[00:34:24] Yes. So I know back in those days where your CDs would have to be taken to radio station you'd be begging please play my song or like you might say gatekeepers those they'll be like who is this new artist that you want to promote? So even with your money back then you cannot do as much as you really need to do because there are some people that you have to set from even from designers. I like the way you said it was set. I'm just set. There was this thing

[00:34:53] that happened back then where I think there was just this controversy that happened then where some female artists from other countries were saying Tiwa Savage is not giving them room to succeed. Could you imagine? How is that? Yeah, it happened in one certain time like that that they are making her the number one African I know she used to call herself the number one bad girl of Africa or like that so every other one that comes from other countries

[00:35:24] that come from other countries like Ghana or you cannot meet up or sometimes if Tiwa Savage was probably performing in a show she must have probably performed before they even allowed those ones coming. I think there were things that were going on like that then but these days now you can blow up on TikTok you just post your music you wake up to more money your music is everywhere I will still tell you everything that does not just happen by chance even as an independent artist you still need a team you still need funds

[00:35:52] to push yes so we're talking about the market so creativity is one thing on one side it's now distribution and marketing and awareness so why don't you talk about community because you've mentioned the word community for a while a bit what do you mean by that? so these are people who love your music and they are looking forward to wanting YouTube to do more they are just like you now you're part of my community now because you heard my song and you

[00:36:22] decided to like ah no I must speak to this person so yeah and I have a few people like that and they keep growing and like I said consistency the more you put out your work out there the more some people will just be glued to your page they'll be like oh this person is releasing something amazing and let's see how the growth is and they'll be stuck to you so as much as you're dropping snippets they'll be snippets of music they'll just keep sharing if you have a good community these are people who will be

[00:36:51] sharing your songs who will be following up who will be commenting and which helps technology the algorithm to keep pushing the songs to people like mine so your community keeps growing because the algorithm is helping you to push your songs to the people who like to listen to what you are producing what you're dropping yeah that's amazing so talk me through so you released it and then what was so how was the response to it did you say to people around you that oh I put

[00:37:21] the music out oh yeah the first thing I did was I started off with my family and friends first my music is out there first musical yeah you would you start sharing I was sharing it to them and a lot of them were posting and people who have followed my journey right from a few years ago who thought I was never going to do music again yeah so they helped you know post on their stories I even have the likes of I don't know if you know him someone who really loves

[00:37:49] my music and he's someone who always tells me you can never give up I know regardless of what you've been through always I'm proud of you he posted he posted my video on his page fantastic yeah so I may be starting small now but at least I'm starting and I'll not stay here I'll keep going so yeah just have the right community just having the right sort of people who love what you're doing and they are willing to see you grow

[00:38:19] what's the next what's the next because you've got some songs anyway already yeah so when are you going to release the next ones yeah for now I I'm working on releasing a single very soon I have another single coming up it's called Love Calls it's an I'm a piano ish I'm a piano house Afro house just fusion danceable song celebration song just that's the woman talking about the love

[00:38:48] that is calling her and he's at home and she's coming and he's saying this is where you're going to be you're not going anywhere messages your music always have messages in them it's always a message yes there's always a story there's always a message yeah and I have I and again I'm working towards an album so which I believe that by the end of this year or in the year I'm going to be dropping that yeah an album would be fantastic because after hearing African music woman I just I wanted an album I was like oh my god one more more because when I like

[00:39:18] something I'll play it over and over again so talking about playing over and over again tell me about the streaming channels so you upload just we do that in publishing if we're self publishing okay we have something called independent publishing where we have platforms that we upload to and then those platforms would disperse yeah I used the song Dix yeah that's where I found you yeah yeah it was actually a friend because I wanted to use which was which is still a very good platform to

[00:39:48] reduce because even independent artists here in the UK and in Europe even yeah they use it but an artist friend of mine told me that if I wanted the best if I wanted a team to work with who would give me the right support and I'm not having to chase after them then actually use Sundays and it's been amazing if you just look for Kemi Music just type Kemi Music and African Oman pops up on WhatsApp on Facebook Spotify YouTube like

[00:40:17] so they just so you instead of you trying to go through all the different platforms they just distribute it everywhere everything oh my god exactly and I was blown away and I'm like oh my god these guys are really good and they'll be the one handling my distribution no like I rightly said it's not just about being an independent artist you also need a team even though you have to lead a team to help make sure that your music gets to where it needs to get to

[00:40:46] and you never know someone somewhere maybe in Asia someone maybe in Los Angeles might just pop into that song and they'll be like oh want to use it for a movie and you never know yes absolutely what I find exciting about creativity the fact that creativity can take you in any direction yes you can pop there's no that's why you need a day job because there's no guarantee you need to pay your bills usually when you're in the UK you need to pay your bills but

[00:41:16] creativity can just take you anywhere and that's the beauty of it so in terms of record level somebody came to you and approached you and said they want to sign you on what are the things that you would think about first would you say yes and jump on it or would you pause and think I've been signed before so trust me how have you been signed before yeah I was signed when I was in Nigeria and it did not go well and trust me it was the darkest moments of my career yeah

[00:41:45] because now for me for an artist group before I was ever signed during COVID before even COVID hit I was always doing covers of so many songs great artists and I think even then that was when how Mr. Muiwadimola found me yeah he's an amazing he's an amazing human being he was in the movie industry he had no business with music he always told me that I was a star and he always just kept commenting on my page

[00:42:14] yes and one day he just told me he said I should go and do the cover of Risky by David Do he said he has that something tells him that I should do it and that he wants to hear he told me that he said by the end of that day that I should have done it and sent it to him so I did it I just made a video then I sent it to him and I just went to sleep and the following day I think this was 2019 everywhere it was open on 2DNOS page

[00:42:43] I saw it I saw it I saw it it was it was so what was it you I was just trying to understand it exactly you just sang it I just did the cover I just sang it I just did my own version of it and yeah I saw it I saw it on YouTube and it blew and it blew and I was like wow and I was like oh god and all of a sudden I just started

[00:43:13] getting DMs people were trying to reach out to me record label owners even there was one I think babyface there was one producer from Mavis at the time that needed to sign a female artist people were recommending me to him people from Turkey were reaching out people that wanted to yeah they wanted to sign me I think that same period I met a music executive from Viacom at the time and he said are you signed to any label I said no people just wanted to know because they were like if she could

[00:43:43] attempt a baby do kind of song and she sang it really well we could you know sign up so I think by the time it was after covid period I just had the covid really just it really affected okay so the momentum went down yeah there was this record label at the time that signed me and that was like for me that was like the last result because it felt like the music thing was not really going so far because of covid shows nothing

[00:44:13] was really happening even the songwriting stuff was not really happening bootcamps were not really happening because people were not allowed to get in one place eventually it didn't work it didn't work out so most record label they might have money but they don't have the right team they don't have the right yes they don't have the right team to be to lead the music they could even be bootstrapping from their room and say they're record label so

[00:44:44] technology is giving this broad access that anybody can do anything that's what technology does exactly exactly and look at me I have my own studio then I didn't even have a studio I didn't have a studio of my own so and then they had money but they didn't have for me I think the only problem they had was they didn't have the right team so if I have a label come to me today I'm just going to ask a few questions like

[00:45:14] you're not going to jump on it you're going to be asking questions exactly I'm going to ask what's their long term plan because I'm not going to put put on pressure to just keep writing and keep recording and

[00:45:43] no plan to put out work yes there was no plan to put out work and at some point it just didn't work out they started signing new male artists like I mentioned because they felt oh female artists is quite expensive music videos so what are not here to come and the moment you sign me you want to tell me this is music you should be doing now

[00:46:13] don't do that type of artists that I should be yeah that I want to be sorry so I'm

[00:46:43] just going to be asking how yeah how big is their reach and what are their plans they don't need to be big but if they have the right team what their management plan how far was their history how many artists have they been able to manage properly what are their numbers how well have they succeeded with each artist or if the artist is not blowing do you allow the artist to do you go back and see okay what did we do right what did we do how do you help

[00:47:12] this artist to move forward if this is happening like there's just so many questions yeah it's not about just saying oh I have a label and I just want to sign artist now so what we're saying is who exploits you who would if care is not taking there's a lot of exploitation within the industry and yeah there is so if

[00:47:42] you're coming out young so we're saying that you're coming out and you're new the songwriter there are questions you need to ask just starting out so don't just jump in that somebody wants to sign you on so what are the things so we've said that you're going to ask a question do your research are they real because there's a lot of fake things out there so really do your research are they registered somewhere is there a registered body which I know there isn't not

[00:48:12] much like that so you really have to don't give your intellectual property your IP to just anybody in the publishing world where you have something and somebody will take all of it and what they give you back is not commensurate with the amount of work you put in so you really have to do your research and find out more don't jump at it that's fantastic so in terms of you said it

[00:48:42] can be a bit lonely tell me a little bit about that is that because do you have people who sing and song write at you yeah I have artists that are my friends sometimes we if we have a piece of work maybe we've done we just want to just maybe if we are having like I

[00:49:13] this one is nice I like this one more and that's how we encourage ourselves but trust me creative process is quite lonely because trust me even those who love you your friends they might not understand your creative mind just to make you feel good but trust me the moment the song is blown out there they'll be like ah that's my friend the song is

[00:49:43] especially in creative process when nobody you know is there they don't know you when you're doing it when nobody knows you you are going to be alone only you enjoy your song you are your producer you know but it's lonely when you're starting up it's lonely when nobody knows you no matter how good your sound is if it has not gotten to the right people if it's not out there it's quite lonely because

[00:50:13] sometimes you need people to encourage you but like I said music even for a woman people be like why are you doing music why don't you just go and get a different career why are you still doing music why are you still hung on yeah like I guess even friends yeah they'll be like why are you still doing music do you think you're going to blow your soul it's speaking to your soul exactly from deep within you but for me right now from where from my own standpoint I just enjoy

[00:50:43] all night just creating music yeah so I love to do what I love but it's lonely and you have to accept the process you have to know that like me I used to say it's just me I'm good sometimes when I want to write I'll be like oh this will just help me just inspire me give me nice thank god so now let's talk about technology there's no entry point now with technology so we know the good and the not so good

[00:51:13] because now there's all this AI music coming on now yeah so we have consumption for me if I now with my music I'm looking out for real human being and I'll go and check if it's a real human being on there I just want something behind the music I want authenticity behind the music I just don't want to be listening to a machine produce emotion in me but that's me conversely I listen to things like classical music and I listen to all sorts of

[00:51:43] music so what is your thinking around this low entry level where somebody can just produce an AI music and put it out there authentic yeah now when I talk technology when I talk AI with people I always tell people AI is just someone created this AI AI is not meant to do things it's meant to assist you to achieve things not do what you are supposed to do it's supposed

[00:52:12] to assist you it's supposed to be an assistant no if like now in your own field now as a writer you understand you're supposed to write now if you want your writing to be better and so you're more excellent at what you're doing you use the tool supposed to be a tool to assist you you will be you will even see that you're a better writer same with music such tools in the hands of people who do

[00:52:42] not know how to use it at the end of the day just like what you're saying it's you see AI music everywhere but I use AI tools in music and trust me I will tell you that it has helped me even right now I'm actually me and my producer we're not talking because we are currently because yeah now because he's not you have to as a producer you also have to be open to the tool now he's feeling that oh

[00:53:11] you've had a listen you've known what this you know what AI can do but I cannot do that but I keep telling him I said you can do even better if you

[00:54:17] there's I've been fusing Afro beats Afro house and my piano and the orchestra you know orchestra is like the way you have all the instruments you know all together and you have even the choir field room it's something that trust me right now you cannot I will have to pay big money to produce but as I can create a demo

[00:54:46] you understand and I tell myself okay this is what I want to hear and I piece that up together I get the prompt from Claude I put it on the other AI too very Suno I can use Suno or there's another one but Suno gives me what I want and I put it on it with my lyrics you understand and I tell it what I want to hear so even when the AI produces it if it doesn't produce what I want to hear I

[00:55:33] beat your sound if it's going to go fast if it's going to be slow if it's going to be super fast I will tell it okay I want it to be I want it to be an Afro house sound with fusing it with Afro beats or I would say maybe Afro beats and Afro pop because I didn't know what it's going to sound like and because I didn't have the melody then there's going to be drums and I would say I

[00:56:05] when you give the right prompt the AI will produce what you ask it to produce if you want talking drums if you want bass if you want it will produce it so in the past you would have to rely on someone to produce those things for you not just someone you have to rely like for me that I'm looking at creating just like the way I did this African woman now if I'm to perform African woman live I

[00:56:35] would need a band I would need a full band because I would need the sax probably two or three people to play the sax I would need to fill the rooms I would need the people but now technology has made that easy so as a creative as someone who creates you use those tools to create what you want so when you now have the opportunity to actually reproduce

[00:57:05] that you understand you have an idea so nobody's going to tell you that oh no no producer will come and tell you oh this is what this is what it should sound like you already know what it sounds like so for me I embrace technology because it's making my music better to the point where I have old songs that I've written and I upload it it's allowing you to work and experiment so it's even making my work sound even better and I'm

[00:57:35] like oh wow so this is what it should sound like if it's been remade but it's not that you have not heard it's still a new song because nobody has heard the song but now with the use of AI it just makes you know that oh this is what it can sound like if given the right prompt what you seen out there some people will just be like oh let me just write this all right all right give me afro bits and they'll just do it and they'll just want to upload it

[00:58:05] AI slope I see that there was this song that was popping so much and a lot of people were jumping on it on tiktok it's a gospel song and I saw a woman she's an elderly woman and she posted it on her page she said I am the one who wrote I'm the lyrics behind the song that is popping and I'm like nobody sends you who sends you to go who sends you to use

[00:58:34] it's true you're not even an artist I'm serious this song went viral so what do you mean she the one that put the song out or what is it yeah she's the one that put the song on her tiktok but tiktok the algorithm found because it was a very good song I think the prompt she used or probably giving it to AI AI just created that and it became a very big it became a very big viral song

[00:59:04] then now I think she's trying to tell people that I'm the one who wrote it but you're not an artist you understand that AI song and she puts it with prompts she puts it with prompt but she's trying to put it that she's the creator of the sound that you people are listening to and the one that created it is my lyrics but sorry auntie

[00:59:34] if you decided to use that lyrics if you got probably if you got that sound and you are a singer you take it to a producer producer say this is my sound this is what I this is what you understand so now I want to create this sound how can we I want to sing it oh no oh my god this thing is good to watch this

[01:00:03] space and see what's going to happen in the future because they call it cyborg this merging of man and machine and technology I'm not honest to be honest anyone who doesn't embrace AI you just before you know it you begin to live in the stone because AI should help you to assist you not make you lazy it's not supposed to make your brain lazy it's supposed

[01:00:33] to help you make you more efficient I think in the corporate world it makes them more efficient and more accurate yes absolutely yeah why would you say because you are in the music industry you wouldn't use it to make your sound better yeah for me it's it should make it better but you should not rely solely on it to create what it wants to create use it as a tool to make your work

[01:01:03] much better that's just what I think but I love the technology it saves time it saves time and energy now for someone like me who works a lot I can wake up in the night do create a sound and all and when I'm ready to now produce that I'll sit and produce it but I know that I have a stack of demos that I'm going to be working on and all I need to do is get the best hands get the best producers and say this is what I want and this is what I want it to sound like or even better so your

[01:01:33] producer does not like the fact that you're using this technology or what is the problem he's very old school he's very good he's someone that has worked with the likes of Lagajar and the rest so he's very yeah does he feel that his role is being eroded in a way because he's finished because I think there was a point where he was like there's this particular snare that the thing gave or I don't really like it so I'm like come on you heard the drums you heard the kicks and I told him I said

[01:02:02] you can do better than what this thing is doing you just need to accept that and I think maybe him knowing that this is AI is like probably if it was another producer probably would put in more efforts maybe if it was another human but because it's AI but now AI has come to stay so we should just make our work better we should know that it has come to assist us I have I know a producer who writes who is also an engineer too he produces he

[01:02:32] makes even the apps to produce so he doesn't so he asks people traveling from other countries to come to Nigeria and he produces in minutes exactly he's using the tools he's using the tools and he knows he knows a lot about IT and what they call it was this IT word the those that work behind the the same are you talking about back end the back end thank you he knows how

[01:03:02] to yeah he knows how to do the back end stuff and trust me he's doing very well but I know that producers will come to that point at least maybe some engineers they may come to that point but some of these young stars they are doing things now with technology fantastic so what is your okay let me ask the questions before we're gonna start wrapping up now question number one is Nigeria is projected to be one of

[01:03:32] it's one of the most populous countries in the world because we have in terms of youths we have youths which is both a blessing and it could be an issue if those youths are not doing well do you see what I'm saying so with youths that are starting now most youths now face things like social media and whatnot as a quick entry point to try and see if they can make something content content creating and everything so what is your

[01:04:01] view on creativity in general for them for the future is it going to be more generic or do you advise that people should be more authentic to themselves and they use the tool just the way you're using it now what's your advice I would always advise that people are more authentic and more original to themselves because there's just a lot of noise on social media everybody so people are trying to make

[01:04:31] content creation that as that is a livelihood content creation is not supposed to be your livelihood that's not who you are you understand because you are more than what you are just creating now content creation it's it depends on what you're creating some people love to travel some people just like to make skits some people are funny but do you want to follow in that step because people are making money off it or are you now if you're a musician

[01:05:01] yes you can use the tool to put out your music out there and be very authentic don't say oh this is the kind of music that is popping let me be doing you understand but be authentic to yourself use the tool to showcase who you are and I think like I said AI has come to stay content creation too has come to stay everybody is putting we're all putting out our lives out there even though for me I'm not as consistent because I feel

[01:05:30] me personally I feel there are some things I shouldn't be sharing but these days I see that every young and trust me for me it's quite scary and for someone who has I have two kids I have two boys it's quite scary to see how much stuff is being put out there but put out your authentic self but find your purpose as a young person know what you are here to do you're born to do I see doctors I have a friend she's a doctor

[01:06:00] and she started making content about health and I see a lot of that now yeah and I'm really I was really encouraging her I said I'm happy she's starting very small but now she's consistent and I told her I said keep doing what you're doing you're helping people you're helping people to be more aware about their health and I think if people are more authentic that way content creation will

[01:06:31] lives and not just stick to what's popping if you're an engineer show show it if you're like I see people teaching people how to edit videos if

[01:07:04] you can see that someone can be cooking online showing people how to cook so for me I feel for the young ones it's a good thing but just make sure you find your purpose make sure you are grounded first isn't it that's what I want to be a chef this is what I love to do

[01:07:33] and you can get people to be on that journey with you and stay there become great you can be a tomorrow they are doing comedy

[01:08:03] there's already skits there's already or you want to act maybe acting will make me more relevant so just be authentic to yourself and know your purpose and use the tools available to project that amplify yourself that yes what an amazing so what do you do for a hobby before we finish my hobby usually my hobby I love cooking what kind of food you cook

[01:08:33] I cook our food I love as long as someone eats you will cook I will cook hey I'm going to your house to cook I can do

[01:09:03] I love shopping even though it's just to window shop to see things lovely yeah I love swimming yeah I love going to the gym fantastic

[01:09:43] most listening listening to the songs I've been working on right now that's songs I've literally been listening to songs I'm working on but when I'm not listening to those songs I'm listening to just love songs now for me love songs that go way back to the old ones you cannot those ones you cannot be those superstars you cannot be there to Wesley

[01:10:13] Wesley oh my god yeah oh my god they knew how to sing my god no I think I was telling someone yesterday I said I love and I think it's something Nigerians should do or we Africans should do I love this environment here where songs there is nothing like old songs because these are people who started music when they didn't have much technology

[01:10:44] they found a way to record it they found a way to put it in in all those big I don't know what it's called those big plates that can just break is the vinyl music yeah my mom had those my mom was yeah my mom was you understand and all that yeah and you see they still play it in movies and they make sure that this generation still knows those songs even down to

[01:11:13] Westlife and all they still play Westlife they still make sure that this generation knows where it comes from but that's what we don't do much in Africa and I curation curate and the ability to appreciate I think instinctively we're doing it if you think about maybe Afrobeat itself we talk about the roots that the root is fella in a way but they don't but they

[01:11:43] really play do you know that even from the now if you ask any new because from Nigeria if you ask any young stars many of them don't know Fela yes many of them don't maybe those born in the 2000s they don't know anything about Fela you can ask you can throw many of them don't know probably they'll just say oh we've heard the king of Afro beats but do you really even know his songs

[01:12:13] do they really play it if it's not being played some people try to play some people put it in movies sometimes but even most of our old artists you know like I did a cover of a song by the plantation boys I don't the face the black face and what was his name and two face I you said they

[01:12:52] more maybe there's more stuff coming out now digitally online somebody will come back and go back and we don't have music real estate in Africa that's just what I'm saying compared to the way they have it here yeah like where people can have their catalogues even when they are long gone people still have their catalogues being over like music is real estate like this place that even till they are old and gray they also keep getting their royalties but

[01:13:23] I think maybe that's where platforms like YouTube comes in it's almost like a curation just put it on YouTube and if you know a particular artist that you knew you can just put them on YouTube and somebody has put it in there so at least they will be getting a little bit of money a tiny amount of money coming in for me it's not just the money for me it's legacy it's that younger ones they get to know it's not like somebody going back

[01:13:52] to just go and discover let the people keep playing this music let them keep letting the younger ones know that these people were there before they should keep playing now if tomorrow King Sonia Adidas now I'm pretty sure that many people will not even hear his music maybe one celebrity just playing one of the songs but at least they should be putting all those songs in movies they should be like I said it should be a realistic thing when it

[01:14:22] comes to music especially for African music in this part of the world I think it just need one or two people who are keen to curate and that's where intellectual that's where lots of academics come in academics record there's a way they do research and it's all grounded in research and everything and then they put that in it's so nice to have spoken to you I've really enjoyed

[01:14:53] our conversation and so now we're going to ask about how people should reach out to you go and listen to African woman can me music I'm going to play this we're going to hear it in the podcast anyway but go and listen to African woman it's an amazing sound I've shared it I've been sharing it where should they reach out to you where are the places that you

[01:15:33] music go listen to African woman it's amazing thank you so much for talking to me I really appreciate you taking the time out we've got a sunny day in the UK today so we're going to go out now have you had your ice cream I'm not so I'm going out to go and get something thank you so much for talking to me

[01:16:02] I really really appreciate it I enjoyed I don't know I hope I answered your questions the way you did you did so that was Kemi about Femi Kemi music who had just released a single African woman it was a very interesting conversation to have and I hope you enjoyed it so please

[01:16:32] to encourage us to continue this podcast subscribe don't just listen subscribe follow comment and so that we can be encouraged to continue I can be encouraged to continue this podcast because the idea behind it is to look at both creativity and technology and you heard Kemi what she said about being an authentic creator but in

[01:17:01] order to bring out her music and all the things she could not do she is able to do with technology so technology is being used in different ways by artists and other kind of industries so continue to listen to us continue to follow and see you next time thank you so much bye bye