Navigating the Digital Shift: Insights on Writing, SEO and AI with Abidemi Sanusi - ep 13

[00:00:12] Hi everyone, welcome to Talking Tech With Creative Podcast. My name is Stella Oni. If you've been following my journey, I think I'm on episode 13 of the podcast. We have a special guest today. Before I introduce her, I just wanted to say if this is your first time actually listening to the podcast and you haven't listened to the back episodes, I just want to tell you a little bit about the podcast.

[00:00:38] We, the last one that I did, the one before the last, I think it was Izuo Kafo, is somewhere in Nigeria, in a town in Nigeria, is doing grassroot filmmaking and film festival. That was incredible using the technology he has at hand. So yeah, that's where we are at with Talking Tech.

[00:00:59] So just a few days ago, I actually went and I attended the World Travel Market, which is a big exhibition in Excel. They have that every November. My first time, the first time I attended was actually last year.

[00:01:15] It actually exhibits different countries exhibiting tourism and it's mind-blowing. I don't even, I can't tell you how many countries are represented, but I would say it's for countries all over the world.

[00:01:28] The Middle East was so upheeled last year and they actually outdid themselves this year that I felt as in every city of Saudi Arabia, I felt I was in those cities.

[00:01:39] And I'm going to do, I'm going to be talking to a few guests because I actually went because of technology. There was a lot of discussion around AI and tourism and the future of that for countries.

[00:01:52] And I attended the ministers' summits where most of the ministers around the world, not all the ministers were represented, but the ones that were there, were talking about the kind of strategies they were going to have for AI and actually the power of storytelling.

[00:02:07] Each of those countries were very interested in using the power of community and storytelling and harnessing AI.

[00:02:14] But of course, there's a lot of talk around legislation, around data privacy, around how quickly that can be implemented, collaboration.

[00:02:24] It was beautiful. I enjoyed that and I'm going to do some more talk around the world travel markets.

[00:02:31] In the meantime, let's come back to why we are here today.

[00:02:35] So I've got Abidemi Sanusi, who was born in Lagos and educated in the UK, a boarding school in Success and Oxfordshire.

[00:02:44] And then at Leeds University. That's what I picked. She might tell me whether I'm wrong or right.

[00:02:49] She's a former human rights worker who now runs a writing services company.

[00:02:55] Her novel, Ayo, was shortlisted for the 2010 Commonwealth Writers' Prize.

[00:03:02] She has written other books, including one of Jacaranda.

[00:03:06] Jacaranda Books is a publishing company, a great publishing company in the UK.

[00:03:12] They did what they call the 20 in 2020 authors in 2020.

[00:03:17] You know the significance of 2020.

[00:03:20] Abidemi's book was one of the 20 in 2020 books and it was called Waiting for Bono.

[00:03:25] It was a book, and it's not because she's here.

[00:03:28] It's a book that I absolutely enjoyed.

[00:03:31] And I think I did. I can't remember if I did a podcast review of it.

[00:03:37] But if I haven't done because I was trying to remind myself if I did or not, it's definitely in the works for me to talk about because I enjoyed Waiting for Bono.

[00:03:47] So she's a talented fiction writer, non-fiction writer.

[00:03:52] And guess what?

[00:03:53] She's coming here as an SEO expert and a content strategist.

[00:03:58] She's been a content strategist for many years.

[00:04:00] And she's now hot into AI and how it can help writers.

[00:04:05] And we know because I've done actually some articles around this that there's a polarization around AI and writers.

[00:04:14] While you have a lot of creatives who are quite concerned about how the first set of AI, like Chagipiti, were trained, how they were trained by actually just scraping the internet of a lot of content to train them.

[00:04:30] Some other writers are quite keen and are using AI, or I would say creatives are actively using AI.

[00:04:37] So, Abidemi, when we talk about SEO, we're going to talk about, if you don't know what SEO is, it's a search engine optimization.

[00:04:43] So we're going to talk about that on Google.

[00:04:46] So we're going to talk about what SEO is.

[00:04:49] And we're going to just discuss so many different things around that and the strategies for a writer in this day and age.

[00:04:58] So, Abidemi, welcome to Talking Tech with Creatives Podcast.

[00:05:03] So happy to have you.

[00:05:05] Before, I just want you, I'm going to, because I want you to tell us about yourself.

[00:05:10] Because you're quite multi-talented, doing different things.

[00:05:14] And I want to know where that started from.

[00:05:17] So tell us a little bit about your childhood.

[00:05:20] First of all, thank you so much for that brilliant introduction.

[00:05:23] I almost did not recognize myself.

[00:05:27] But I'm taking it all in.

[00:05:29] So thank you so much.

[00:05:30] So in terms of who I am, really, it's interesting because I think people, you know, if you're, there's a kind of idea in the world that if you are a writer, if you're a creative, then that means that you can't be technical.

[00:05:45] That means that you're technologically challenged.

[00:05:48] And for me, I just find that really weird.

[00:05:51] I always say that I have two brains.

[00:05:53] There's the creative side that does all the writing.

[00:05:55] And then there's a tech part.

[00:05:57] Because I know I really love tech.

[00:05:59] I love digital.

[00:06:00] And that's been a part of my life for a long time.

[00:06:03] And it's just because I'm really curious about things.

[00:06:06] Do you know what I mean?

[00:06:06] I like, I'm just really curious.

[00:06:08] It's really interesting because there was a point in my life I was also, I used to review software for companies.

[00:06:14] And at one point, I also used to review Google products as well until I just said, I opted out of that.

[00:06:21] Yeah, this is years ago.

[00:06:22] I just said, no, I just, I can't be bothered with this anymore.

[00:06:25] I was on their panel and stuff.

[00:06:26] I just, I don't want to do this anymore.

[00:06:28] So I grew up, I was born in Lagos, Nigeria.

[00:06:31] That's where I grew up.

[00:06:33] And I think like most people who were born in, I think, Nigeria or let's say other parts of Africa, reading is so much a part of our culture.

[00:06:42] And I was always reading.

[00:06:44] I did not remember a time where I didn't read as a child.

[00:06:48] It was actively encouraged.

[00:06:49] It was, it was for the norm.

[00:06:52] It was the norm in my family.

[00:06:53] And certainly like in everybody else's, like my extended family as well.

[00:06:59] I go to friends' houses, like the kids are reading.

[00:07:02] I go to my cousin's house.

[00:07:03] There's always books.

[00:07:04] There wasn't any time I didn't have books.

[00:07:06] Books and comics.

[00:07:07] Huh?

[00:07:08] Books and comics.

[00:07:09] Books and comics.

[00:07:10] Yes, books and comics.

[00:07:11] So for me, that was part and parcel of like my child who's growing up.

[00:07:15] So in terms of the tech side, I think it was just like the natural curiosity.

[00:07:19] Do you know what I mean?

[00:07:21] And it wasn't until I actually came to the UK as a teenager, I was at a boarding school, like everybody else in my family.

[00:07:29] I went to boarding school that my curiosity was actually sparked.

[00:07:33] And I remember we had a computer programming class and I hate programming full stop.

[00:07:39] I just could not get my head around it.

[00:07:41] I think it was like C++ or something that I could show you.

[00:07:43] Oh my word.

[00:07:44] Oh God.

[00:07:45] It's like ghastly.

[00:07:46] Awful, awful, awful.

[00:07:48] It's just awful.

[00:07:50] But then that was when I realized that stuff wasn't for me.

[00:07:53] It's actually programming bit.

[00:07:55] And I did actually go on there for some weird reason and said I was going to learn programming.

[00:08:00] I can do HTML just now.

[00:08:03] I can read it, but I'm not like a developer level.

[00:08:06] So I knew programming wasn't for me.

[00:08:09] And I think it was actually when I was at university.

[00:08:12] I was at university and I just started, oh, this software does this.

[00:08:16] That's amazing.

[00:08:17] I was just really interested in how software made people's lives easy.

[00:08:21] I just saw it as a tool.

[00:08:22] I don't think of tech as this kind of evil thing.

[00:08:25] And that's how my curiosity, I think, was spiked.

[00:08:29] It was spiked.

[00:08:31] I don't know if that answers your question.

[00:08:33] That's how you started.

[00:08:34] Yeah.

[00:08:35] That's brilliant.

[00:08:36] So now, you were reading, but we know that reading does not normally transition into writing.

[00:08:44] Yeah.

[00:08:45] When did you now decide that you actually wanted to be a writer?

[00:08:48] And how did you develop your writing?

[00:08:51] I don't think there was ever any question that I would not be a writer.

[00:08:54] It did not occur to me to be anything else.

[00:08:57] And I think I've been very fortunate in having the kind of family that I have, the parents

[00:09:02] that I have, because it really, for someone like my dad, he really made it clear to me,

[00:09:08] what to me, to the girls in the family, that nothing like was impossible.

[00:09:13] So for me, as a writer, I used to write short stories.

[00:09:16] So every time my mom would piss me off, I would just write a short story about a wicked story.

[00:09:21] She's stubborn and I'm stubborn as well.

[00:09:23] So every time she would piss me off or tell me off, I was just going to write a short story

[00:09:27] about a wicked stepmother and I would make sure the stepmother died.

[00:09:31] So that was my way of dealing with stress or any kind of distressing issues in my life.

[00:09:37] Writing helped me to connect.

[00:09:38] It really grounded me.

[00:09:39] And it helped me to make sense of my emotions and my feelings.

[00:09:43] And I've always kept a diary.

[00:09:44] I've always journaled from a very young age.

[00:09:47] They will all be published when I'm dead.

[00:09:50] That's what's in the wheel.

[00:09:53] Publishing when I'm dead.

[00:09:54] But that's not going to happen as yet.

[00:09:57] But yeah, I've always written.

[00:09:59] And I think, yes, you are a writer.

[00:10:00] Not every reader is a writer.

[00:10:03] Every reader writes.

[00:10:04] Yeah.

[00:10:04] Every writer reads.

[00:10:06] Yeah.

[00:10:06] And I think that's really important.

[00:10:07] I think when you're doing your day to day, sometimes it can be quite hard.

[00:10:12] Because you're like, how am I going to fit time into read?

[00:10:14] But I think when people ask me nowadays, they're just like, I want to be a writer.

[00:10:18] When you want to be a writer, I want to write a book.

[00:10:20] And I say, what's the last book you read?

[00:10:22] Oh, I don't like reading.

[00:10:24] Oh, well.

[00:10:25] How are you going to be a writer?

[00:10:26] Tell me that, actually.

[00:10:27] I don't like reading.

[00:10:28] I haven't got time to read.

[00:10:29] I just want to write.

[00:10:30] And I just think you have a very challenging road ahead of you.

[00:10:33] Mm-hmm.

[00:10:34] Yeah.

[00:10:35] It's strange, isn't it?

[00:10:36] To just think about it anyway.

[00:10:37] Yeah.

[00:10:37] So for me, that's how we started.

[00:10:40] And I just continuously wrote all through my childhood.

[00:10:43] In high school, university.

[00:10:46] There was just never, it just didn't occur to me.

[00:10:49] Like, my BA was in politics.

[00:10:51] Then I did a master's in SOAS, development studies.

[00:10:55] Then I did a second master's degree in crystal.

[00:10:58] Oh, my goodness.

[00:10:59] Yeah, because I wanted to do a PhD in theology.

[00:11:02] What was the second?

[00:11:03] So there's a story to that.

[00:11:05] So the second one.

[00:11:06] Oh, yeah.

[00:11:07] What is it?

[00:11:08] Yeah.

[00:11:08] So the second one.

[00:11:09] So after I did my first master's degree, because I had to get a master's because I'm Nigerian.

[00:11:15] And my dad said I had to get a master's because everybody.

[00:11:17] You're not the only one.

[00:11:18] Oh, my God.

[00:11:20] You know what they're like.

[00:11:22] You have to get a master's.

[00:11:23] That's the absolute minimum.

[00:11:24] My dad, my dad.

[00:11:25] Absolute minimum.

[00:11:26] So, yeah, that's not extraordinary.

[00:11:28] Not for us anyway.

[00:11:29] We had to.

[00:11:29] So I did.

[00:11:30] Yeah.

[00:11:31] But the second one was just because I was thinking I wanted to do a PhD in theology and literature.

[00:11:36] Looking at the.

[00:11:37] Yeah.

[00:11:38] So I wanted to do a PhD in theology.

[00:11:39] I wanted to do a PhD in literature.

[00:11:40] However, I did not have a background, an academic background in theology or literature.

[00:11:47] So they said, OK, just do an M field.

[00:11:48] So you start with Christianity.

[00:11:50] They're like, yeah.

[00:11:51] So you start.

[00:11:51] You already have a master's degree.

[00:11:53] So you start with a master's in what you would call it Christianity and the arts.

[00:11:57] And then I think when you get to some point, you change that into an M field.

[00:12:02] Then you can graduate on to do the move on to do the PhD.

[00:12:06] You have you.

[00:12:08] And then this is a funny story.

[00:12:10] And then halfway through this master's degree, I thought, you know what?

[00:12:14] I can't be bothered with this stuff.

[00:12:20] Because maybe you didn't have a why or maybe your why was not strong enough.

[00:12:24] Yeah.

[00:12:24] Maybe.

[00:12:24] Yeah.

[00:12:25] Maybe the why wasn't strong enough, you know?

[00:12:27] And one of my sisters, yeah.

[00:12:29] She's got a PhD.

[00:12:30] She's a human rights lawyer.

[00:12:32] She doesn't do human rights anymore.

[00:12:33] But she's very good.

[00:12:34] She's worked for the UN.

[00:12:36] She's done all kinds of stuff.

[00:12:37] And I always remember her doing that PhD.

[00:12:39] In fact, when she did the Viva, whatever that is called, she came home and then she

[00:12:43] had it.

[00:12:44] And then when there's her script and what it's like delivered, it's like this massive thing.

[00:12:49] And me and my younger sister were just like, we're challenging each other.

[00:12:52] She read it through 10 pages.

[00:12:55] But my younger sister finished it off and she was like, she finished it off.

[00:12:59] But I could never do it.

[00:13:00] I just found it really good.

[00:13:01] Wow.

[00:13:02] It's all about legal stuff.

[00:13:04] Yeah.

[00:13:05] Yeah.

[00:13:07] But yeah.

[00:13:08] So in a roundabout way, I forgot the point I was making.

[00:13:12] But it was all about the Enfield, doing the second master's degree and then not wanting

[00:13:17] to.

[00:13:18] Yeah.

[00:13:18] So I think and all through that time, I just continued.

[00:13:22] I just I kept on writing.

[00:13:23] And I think what most people.

[00:13:25] So here's the thing about me.

[00:13:27] It didn't occur to me.

[00:13:29] I just I think for me, I just kept on writing.

[00:13:32] I kept on writing my stories.

[00:13:34] Also university.

[00:13:35] I kept on submitting my manuscript and sending off my manuscript to publishers, to literary

[00:13:39] agents, to all the rest of that stuff.

[00:13:41] And this is going to sound like it just never occurred to me to not do it.

[00:13:45] I wanted to be.

[00:13:46] Yeah.

[00:13:48] Dude, I wanted to be a writer.

[00:13:50] I wanted to write books.

[00:13:51] And I had all these ideas.

[00:13:52] So obviously, then I must sit down.

[00:13:54] I must do the work.

[00:13:55] And then what you do, then you send it off.

[00:13:58] You send it off to a literary agent because that's what everybody says you should do.

[00:14:01] So I kept on studying and I kept on sending all this stuff.

[00:14:05] And really, I just it's only now, like when I talk to people, it's only after when I talk

[00:14:11] to people and I wonder because I mentor and coach quite a few kind of aspiring authors and

[00:14:18] they have so many blockers.

[00:14:21] They're like, oh, they haven't got time to write.

[00:14:23] How can I make the time?

[00:14:25] What?

[00:14:26] Idea is so rubbish.

[00:14:28] Who's going to?

[00:14:29] My idea is so rubbish.

[00:14:30] Like everybody is going to be good enough.

[00:14:32] I have so many blockers like in their minds regarding this writing book stuff.

[00:14:37] And I think I'm quite stubborn and passionate about to really not give a damn about what

[00:14:41] anybody else thinks, to be honest with me.

[00:14:42] I just really got stuff.

[00:14:45] Don't get me wrong.

[00:14:46] I do.

[00:14:47] There were moments of when my first book first came out, it was aimed at the Christian market.

[00:14:52] And then when that came out, I remember I made page three of The Independent, which is

[00:14:58] very strange.

[00:14:59] Like they gave me half a page.

[00:15:01] Awesome.

[00:15:02] Yeah.

[00:15:02] And I got really good reviews interviewed by all these people.

[00:15:06] Yeah.

[00:15:06] What was the first title?

[00:15:07] I think I had it down, but I've.

[00:15:09] Yeah.

[00:15:10] Kevin's Journal.

[00:15:11] Kevin's Journal.

[00:15:12] Yeah.

[00:15:12] Yeah.

[00:15:12] So that was, for me, that was really good.

[00:15:15] But then I decided I don't want to be stuck writing to the same audience.

[00:15:18] I want to write commercial fiction book.

[00:15:20] And that's when I moved on to A.R.

[00:15:22] And again, nobody told me not to do it.

[00:15:26] Do you know what I mean?

[00:15:27] Nobody told me.

[00:15:28] But I think in that transition, I remember speaking to my literary agent at the time.

[00:15:34] And I just said, oh, because she had the manuscript looking for Bono.

[00:15:39] And I remember, I remember, I said to her, it was Elise, wasn't it?

[00:15:43] And I just said, I went to see her in her house.

[00:15:45] She was walking me to the bus stop because she lives quite close to me or what have you.

[00:15:48] And then I just said to her, I'm really worried that people will take me seriously because my first book was aimed at the Christian market.

[00:15:57] Really?

[00:15:58] Yeah.

[00:15:59] And then she said, you've been nominated for the Commonwealth Writers' Prize.

[00:16:03] Wow.

[00:16:05] Like she said to me, she said, do you know what a big deal that is?

[00:16:09] I'm like, yeah, but like people like, but because I first started with Christian publishing, like people are just going to think I'm weird or all that kind of stuff.

[00:16:17] So for me, that was my hang up.

[00:16:18] But I had to basically push through that.

[00:16:21] And she was the one that really made me see myself.

[00:16:24] I said, yeah, just own it.

[00:16:26] It's nothing to be embarrassed about.

[00:16:28] Absolutely.

[00:16:29] Do reviews in your first book.

[00:16:31] Yeah.

[00:16:32] The right people will come to you.

[00:16:33] The people that want to read your work will come to you.

[00:16:35] Yeah.

[00:16:35] Yeah.

[00:16:36] So in terms of blockers, that was my big blocker.

[00:16:39] But now I'm just like, oh, who cares?

[00:16:43] Who cares?

[00:16:44] So now we've talked about the writing.

[00:16:46] What's made you go into the digital aspect of things?

[00:16:50] I know you.

[00:16:50] Yeah.

[00:16:51] So in terms of the tech.

[00:16:52] Like, interestingly enough, actually, how I actually got started in tech as a, I was working for, when I first, my first degree, I was a master's, I can't remember.

[00:17:03] I started working part time just doing admin work for a small African charity called Allieses for Africa.

[00:17:10] So they had an office in London and they had another one in Nigeria.

[00:17:14] So I was in London.

[00:17:15] And then a couple of weeks, a month after I started, the program manager decided to leave.

[00:17:22] So she was leaving.

[00:17:23] And I remember to this day.

[00:17:25] And then she was the one that basically used to update all the website and our network community websites as well.

[00:17:31] And then she took me to the computer and then she said, so this is how you update speech.

[00:17:35] It was like five minutes.

[00:17:37] And then she left me to it.

[00:17:39] And that was it.

[00:17:40] That was actually my introduction to like tech, to digital.

[00:17:43] Yeah.

[00:17:44] And then because obviously we were funded, we're donor funded.

[00:17:48] And then we got funding to basically build a bilingual website.

[00:17:54] Oh my God.

[00:17:55] I don't even ask.

[00:17:57] French and English.

[00:17:58] What bilingual website?

[00:17:59] Yeah.

[00:18:00] So somehow we got it done.

[00:18:01] Which year was this?

[00:18:03] Huh?

[00:18:03] Which year?

[00:18:04] This was, yeah, it was 20 years ago.

[00:18:06] But this was like, I don't even speak French.

[00:18:09] I didn't go website 20 years ago.

[00:18:11] Yeah.

[00:18:12] I didn't even speak French.

[00:18:14] Wow.

[00:18:14] How?

[00:18:16] I don't know.

[00:18:19] Yeah.

[00:18:20] Roundabout, I think.

[00:18:21] Roundabout at that time.

[00:18:22] And then I don't even speak French.

[00:18:24] But anyway, we got the website up.

[00:18:26] And then I just started doing things that I thought were normal.

[00:18:30] Like I would monitor the website visits.

[00:18:33] I would look at the pages that we're doing really well.

[00:18:36] I would look at the journeys across the pages.

[00:18:38] And then that would help me to build a picture of the people that were visiting the website.

[00:18:42] I would know, okay, this one.

[00:18:43] We're doing your manual analytics.

[00:18:46] Yeah.

[00:18:46] Yeah.

[00:18:46] We use Google as well.

[00:18:48] Yeah.

[00:18:49] I would look at the page.

[00:18:50] And so this is what is like performing really well.

[00:18:53] And then sometimes the website had the lag.

[00:18:55] I was just picked up to develop a list.

[00:18:56] There's a lag.

[00:18:57] We need to increase that.

[00:18:58] And that was how I found out about SEO.

[00:19:01] And then we had a donors meeting.

[00:19:03] I remember the donor was just like, okay, so in these three months, this website has launched.

[00:19:08] How many visits have they had?

[00:19:10] Like 4,000.

[00:19:12] That's like the, I think it was like the average number of visits we had a month.

[00:19:16] Tell me, how did you do that?

[00:19:17] And I just shared with him.

[00:19:19] Did you know how to do that?

[00:19:20] I'm like, no, just in that common sense to me.

[00:19:22] So that was actually my introduction to SEO.

[00:19:24] Awesome.

[00:19:25] Into SEO.

[00:19:26] And then I decided to study it.

[00:19:28] I went for an all day workshop with this guy, Joe.

[00:19:32] I can't remember his last name now.

[00:19:34] And already I was writing content because obviously I was managing this small website stuff.

[00:19:39] And I just said, if I were to stand out in the marketplace, then I needed to basically study SEO properly.

[00:19:45] And then, so that's how I got started.

[00:19:47] And I got asserted.

[00:19:48] And I started getting contract work as an SEO person, as a content person.

[00:19:52] And then at some point, I just said to myself, really, I don't want to work for corporate anymore.

[00:19:56] I don't want to work for any bosses.

[00:19:58] I don't want to freelance because I used to freelance part of a lot back then.

[00:20:01] And then I just thought to myself, I would like to run my own business.

[00:20:06] So I set up an agency called ReadyWriter.

[00:20:09] And then it was an SEO copywriting agency.

[00:20:12] And that's what we did.

[00:20:13] We said, I had five people working for me.

[00:20:15] It wasn't a content meal.

[00:20:17] It was like a proper, I had a copywriting.

[00:20:19] Yeah.

[00:20:19] Yeah.

[00:20:20] So it was five people working for me.

[00:20:22] And then, but then I just thought, I was thinking to myself, okay, we need leads, we need prospects.

[00:20:26] How can we get clients?

[00:20:28] So I wrote a book on SEO copywriting.

[00:20:30] Yes.

[00:20:30] I remember.

[00:20:31] I read your book.

[00:20:32] Yeah.

[00:20:32] And it's funny.

[00:20:33] That book is probably, what, 15 years old.

[00:20:36] And yeah, but it's got five stars.

[00:20:39] To this day, people still talk about it.

[00:20:41] Yeah.

[00:20:42] The fundamentals are still there.

[00:20:44] So essentially, and then, and I think people saw that body of work.

[00:20:47] I wrapped up the agency after three or four years.

[00:20:49] So by that time I was basically, I'd been established as an SEO content strategist person.

[00:20:56] And then everything else just started building up from there.

[00:20:59] Awesome.

[00:20:59] So you're getting all your clients.

[00:21:00] So before we continue, just because not everybody knows what SEO is.

[00:21:07] Sure.

[00:21:07] And this podcast is for writers to understand how they're going to use technology, especially the current technology to harness and to improve the marketing of their work.

[00:21:22] Because quite a lot of writers know how to write.

[00:21:25] Not many writers know how to market.

[00:21:27] Not many writers know how to use digital tools.

[00:21:31] Hopefully, by the time they listen today, they will be able to understand a bit more.

[00:21:35] So what is SEO?

[00:21:37] So SEO is search engine optimization.

[00:21:40] And it's the process of optimizing your website so that it attracts people, your ideal audience, your customers to your website.

[00:21:50] So this is how we start.

[00:21:51] So when you type in, when you go to Google, I know people in the know who use AI now.

[00:21:58] They really use Google.

[00:21:59] But when you go to Google or you're choosing search engine, a search engine is Google or Microsoft Bing or whatever that is that you use nowadays, or Safari or Firefox.

[00:22:10] And you type in, what is SEO or whatever that you type in.

[00:22:16] That is called a search query.

[00:22:18] Yeah.

[00:22:18] So when you type in that and it brings up the results.

[00:22:22] Yeah.

[00:22:23] It brings up the results.

[00:22:24] And then that is SEO.

[00:22:26] Well, a lot of the time, the results that it brings out.

[00:22:29] Yeah.

[00:22:30] The people that own the website, they have worked really hard to attract people like you.

[00:22:35] They've worked really hard on their content.

[00:22:37] We call it optimization.

[00:22:39] So that's the real, they basically optimize their website so that when people like you type in a query, it comes up in those search results for your query.

[00:22:48] Because it comes up in those search results for your query.

[00:22:50] And hopefully they want you to click on their website and then be directed to their website.

[00:22:55] The reason why it's good is number one, it is free.

[00:22:59] Yeah.

[00:23:00] But it takes time to optimize your website.

[00:23:02] It's different from ads.

[00:23:04] You have to pay money for ads.

[00:23:05] And the reason authors should be interested in SEO, which really is not as scary as it sounds.

[00:23:13] It's just basically, if you're writing a book about, I don't know, maybe your book is about political thrillers, for example.

[00:23:19] If you optimize your website, just making sure that what we call the metadata, that the page title or your page description or the overall health of your website is geared towards people that will read political thrillers.

[00:23:33] There's some basic things that you can do to optimize your website so that when somebody types in, I want to read a political novel or the best political novelist in the world.

[00:23:45] You want to make sure that your website comes up.

[00:23:48] AI is going to be prioritizing that for you now.

[00:23:52] Yeah, definitely.

[00:23:54] Lots of people.

[00:23:55] So we know that SEO, not a lot of people know this, but SEO used to be what they call keyword.

[00:24:00] So, you know, when you put the right keywords in, like what you've talked about, talking about political thrillers or some other kind of keyword that has to do with your industry, then your pages will rank.

[00:24:13] So when they talk about pages ranking, it will be, you want to be one of the pages that are the first pages on Google, which is changing now.

[00:24:21] But Google have algorithm behind the search engine.

[00:24:27] And that algorithm is AI anyway.

[00:24:29] You know that now.

[00:24:30] So now Google changes.

[00:24:34] Technology changes all the time.

[00:24:35] So in the last couple of years, Google changed their SEO the way from keyword having to having quality content.

[00:24:45] So that change took place.

[00:24:47] How have you pivot?

[00:24:48] How did you pivot when Google made those changes?

[00:24:51] I think Google has always been about quality experiences for users.

[00:24:57] If you go to Google's like right algorithm SEO rankings, it's like they have like over 200 signals.

[00:25:04] It's UX, it's SEO, it's so much more.

[00:25:07] It's about page speed.

[00:25:08] It's about the overall experience that people have, that people have on your website.

[00:25:12] So that's always been there.

[00:25:14] But I think it's in the last couple of years, they've really honed in on that.

[00:25:18] And I think people are getting the message, getting the message.

[00:25:21] And I think it's really, people are more technologically savvy now.

[00:25:26] And I think the things that the wild west of the early 2000s or when people would just stuff their websites with keywords,

[00:25:33] like if you're writing a political thriller and you just put to the end.

[00:25:38] Yeah, those days are over.

[00:25:40] Really, it's about an overall quality experience, which has always been the case.

[00:25:44] But I think it's just because Google has been a lot more stricter about finding websites and basically delisting them.

[00:25:51] That's possible from search engines.

[00:25:54] So you don't see them.

[00:25:56] So I think that's why people think Google has been a lot stricter.

[00:25:59] But I think it's always been there.

[00:26:01] They've just been more proactively showing people that this is what we are doing.

[00:26:06] Yeah.

[00:26:07] So now let's talk about AI and the changes that AI has made with Google.

[00:26:12] Because now people are not talking about Google anymore.

[00:26:15] Now it's all AI.

[00:26:16] We know that SEO is still relevant to businesses for authors.

[00:26:21] Because I know not every author actually builds their own website.

[00:26:25] But at least if you have the knowledge of what needs to happen to your website,

[00:26:30] you can be able to advise whoever builds it to do X and this and this to that website.

[00:26:35] So how is AI changing the landscape of SEO now?

[00:26:40] What are you up to?

[00:26:41] I tell you the biggest change is the fact that when people have questions,

[00:26:46] to go to Gemini or chat GPT or Claude or any one of those other AI people instead of going to Google

[00:26:52] and Google is losing money and it's going crazy because that's how he makes his money.

[00:26:58] And if you're not getting eyeballs on the ads on the search engine results page,

[00:27:02] they don't like that.

[00:27:03] So that's different.

[00:27:04] That's different.

[00:27:05] So I think businesses having to be, or anybody that's invested in AI,

[00:27:12] they're having to be a lot more kind of creative about the way they want to use,

[00:27:20] about the way they use AI.

[00:27:21] I think AI is still definitely important.

[00:27:24] I think it still has a place.

[00:27:26] I think definitely for businesses, but I think for individuals, for B2C, definitely.

[00:27:32] B2B, definitely.

[00:27:34] Because if you want to get stuff done, for instance, you're looking for a plumber,

[00:27:38] you're not going to go to AI.

[00:27:39] You go to YouTube.

[00:27:41] You go to Google and then you just type in plumber in N59 or wherever that is that you live.

[00:27:48] So it still has a place for those kinds of tasks and things that need to be done.

[00:27:53] But what I found is the other day I was struggling with something.

[00:27:56] I was working on a website and then I don't know what it was,

[00:27:59] whether it was the style sheet or whatever that it was.

[00:28:02] So I just put out a post on the community that I was in.

[00:28:06] And the lady got back to me and then she said, I like to use ChatGPT for this thing.

[00:28:11] And this is what ChatGPT said might be wrong with your page.

[00:28:16] And the first thing she said was actually, I actually figured it out by the time she got back to me, to be honest with you.

[00:28:22] But that was actually the issue.

[00:28:24] And she just said, yeah, you need to go to that setting, go to that setting, turn it off and then do X, Y, Z.

[00:28:30] Now, back in the day, this is the kind of thing that you would have Googled.

[00:28:34] When you said, why is this page not working?

[00:28:36] Oh, yeah, looking at it's not working.

[00:28:40] Right.

[00:28:40] So it's quicker now.

[00:28:42] Absolutely.

[00:28:43] And there are no ads.

[00:28:44] But for now, I'm sure that will change in the future.

[00:28:47] People are paying.

[00:28:48] If you're not paying for it, they'll probably put ads there.

[00:28:52] But hopefully there will be no ads.

[00:28:54] Yeah.

[00:28:54] So AI is changing the landscape in that way.

[00:28:57] People are going to AI.

[00:28:57] So what would you tell people who are not using AI?

[00:29:04] Because like I talked about the polarization where a lot of authors that I know don't even want to go near AI.

[00:29:12] Some people are using AI actively.

[00:29:14] So quite a few people are using it actively now.

[00:29:18] So what would you tell authors to do now?

[00:29:20] I would say to authors that you don't have anything to be scared of, to be honest.

[00:29:23] For me, when I think about AI, I look at it as a productive, as a productivity tool.

[00:29:29] It helps me to get stuff done.

[00:29:31] Essentially, that's what it does.

[00:29:33] And I look at it as my assistant.

[00:29:35] Yeah.

[00:29:36] I don't think you have anything to be scared of.

[00:29:38] So if, for instance, like today I was working on a passage, just a really short passage.

[00:29:44] And I wrote it, typed it up.

[00:29:46] I read it, reread it.

[00:29:47] It just wasn't, it just wasn't clicking.

[00:29:49] It just wasn't working.

[00:29:50] And I do the thing that I always do.

[00:29:53] It just wasn't working.

[00:29:55] Plugged it into my AI tool of choice, Claude.

[00:29:59] And I just said, all I said was tweak this for me.

[00:30:01] And that was just it.

[00:30:03] Like something that I'd spent one hour obsessing about.

[00:30:06] In five seconds, it just came back with me and said, oh, this is how I've tweaked it.

[00:30:10] I've changed this and I've changed that.

[00:30:12] And it was so much better.

[00:30:14] It does.

[00:30:15] So much better.

[00:30:16] Or you put stuff in there.

[00:30:17] You say, edit this for me.

[00:30:18] This is grammatically correct.

[00:30:20] So you can do that.

[00:30:21] But a way that authors can use it, and I'm sure some people would think this is blasphemous,

[00:30:25] for example.

[00:30:27] If there's so many ways, even for marketing.

[00:30:29] But let me start with, that's my example.

[00:30:31] I wrote a passage.

[00:30:32] It wasn't gelling.

[00:30:33] I just didn't like what I, and I'd done all the things to make it work.

[00:30:36] It hadn't worked.

[00:30:37] So I just plugged it in.

[00:30:38] This is just a couple, just about five lines or so.

[00:30:40] But what it gave back to me was so much more better.

[00:30:42] You read a lot better.

[00:30:43] That was good.

[00:30:44] So let's say, for example, you're writing a novel, and you're trying to describe a scene

[00:30:49] or maybe a character.

[00:30:50] And it's just trying to describe a character.

[00:30:54] It's trying to describe a character.

[00:30:56] And I think if you use something like mid-journey, it can use that to basically create your character

[00:31:02] and bring it to life a bit more for you.

[00:31:04] If you write fantasy, for instance, you can create those worlds for yourself and just bring

[00:31:09] it to life a bit more.

[00:31:10] And these are actually things that you can sell, bookmarketing, that you can sell to

[00:31:14] your readers.

[00:31:15] There's so many uses.

[00:31:17] Don't just think to yourself, oh, my God, this is bad.

[00:31:19] And I know, oh, it's, you know, AI is built on the back of other people's work and all

[00:31:23] the rest of it.

[00:31:24] Listen, darling, the world is moving at such speed.

[00:31:28] The knowledge that we have now, what we are doing now has been based on the experiences

[00:31:33] and knowledge and skills of the ones that are before us.

[00:31:36] What the next 10,000 generations are going to be doing, they're going to be building on

[00:31:41] our skills and our knowledge.

[00:31:43] So really, AI is not that different.

[00:31:47] Okay, I've got, I'm going to tease out two things from what you've said.

[00:31:50] And I don't want to forget.

[00:31:52] One of the things I wanted to tease out was the skill sets.

[00:31:57] Like, for example, authors pride themselves in being able to like use, polish and hone

[00:32:04] your craft.

[00:32:05] Craft.

[00:32:05] We're talking about craft.

[00:32:07] Yeah, we know that AI is very good, especially Claude.

[00:32:10] And I'll talk about those tools.

[00:32:11] So if you don't know the AI tools, I will explain a bit more because I know I've been

[00:32:16] mentioned a few.

[00:32:18] We, a lot of authors, some of the authors you read is the voice and in the way they hone

[00:32:22] their voice and all that that you're reading them for.

[00:32:25] So if you start getting AI to fine tune those things for you.

[00:32:29] Yeah.

[00:32:29] I'm not talking about the authors that use AI for this or the ones that don't, but the

[00:32:34] ones that are not convinced.

[00:32:37] How does that help you when it comes to your craft in the future?

[00:32:41] Do you think at some point that we're going to lose that edge, the craft?

[00:32:44] I don't think we are because to be honest, no, I don't think we are.

[00:32:49] The whole point, the whole point, like I said, like it's for AI, you view it as your assistant.

[00:32:55] There are some times it brings us stuff and it's absolute garbage.

[00:32:58] Look, my unique selling point as an author is my voice, is my writing style.

[00:33:03] That's what makes me different.

[00:33:04] And I don't think it's my unique voice, my style.

[00:33:07] So whatever AI or Claude or whatever the AI tool spews at me, I'm not going to take it verbatim.

[00:33:14] I still, I'm still going to abidemi-defy it.

[00:33:17] Do you know what I mean?

[00:33:18] I'm still going to turn around and make it work for me.

[00:33:21] You're never, ever meant to take something that's from AI and just take that as the gospel truth

[00:33:26] because that's not the case.

[00:33:28] It's all it is.

[00:33:29] It's a tool.

[00:33:30] That is all it is meant to be.

[00:33:33] Okay.

[00:33:33] And I think for some people who think, oh, is everything like, does that mean that I have

[00:33:37] to take everything that it gives to me?

[00:33:39] No, you're meant to read it, look at it and see if it works for you, tweak it around,

[00:33:44] make it your own.

[00:33:45] And that's how it's meant to work.

[00:33:48] Yeah.

[00:33:48] Yeah.

[00:33:49] I was going to talk about the AI tool.

[00:33:50] So just to explain to audience.

[00:33:53] So abidemi, if you're not familiar with those tools, so you have Chargipity, which a lot

[00:33:58] of people would have heard about Chargipity, generative AI, you write something or you ask

[00:34:03] it some, ask for some information and it's able to help you.

[00:34:07] And it's multimodal.

[00:34:09] So meaning that you can put pictures in, you can use audio, you can use text.

[00:34:13] One of the things I used Chargipity for recently, actually, I think it was yesterday or today,

[00:34:19] was that I went, when I go for conferences, I would normally use maybe audio to text services.

[00:34:27] But the problem with audio to text is that all the M's, everything that the person says

[00:34:32] is going to put it all together.

[00:34:33] Then I have to try and decipher, try and extract the knowledge.

[00:34:37] And it takes hours, days.

[00:34:39] Hours.

[00:34:40] So I decided I was not going to use an audio to text.

[00:34:43] I'll take my notebook and write things down the old fashioned way.

[00:34:45] Because when I write it on my phones, I'm not fast enough when they're talking.

[00:34:48] And I did that.

[00:34:49] I wrote about five pages of information because I love my writing anyway.

[00:34:53] And what I did was I just took photos of the information and I threw it into Chargipity.

[00:34:59] And I told it, organize this information for me.

[00:35:03] Yeah.

[00:35:03] And give me insights into what I've written.

[00:35:06] And he did it in less than one minute.

[00:35:10] It's back.

[00:35:12] So how many hours did that save you?

[00:35:15] I would have been in normal circumstances.

[00:35:18] I would have read it to try and extract the information, to try and look at the insights.

[00:35:23] But I took it because it's multimodal, meaning that it could translate from pictures and everything.

[00:35:29] I was able to do that very quickly for me.

[00:35:31] And that's my own work.

[00:35:32] But it did the work for me.

[00:35:34] It was my assistance.

[00:35:35] Yeah.

[00:35:35] And I appreciate that.

[00:35:36] So when she talks about visual, for example, she talks about Mid Journey.

[00:35:42] Chargipity has Dali.

[00:35:45] It's able to generate images too in Chargipity.

[00:35:49] Mid Journey is more sophisticated.

[00:35:51] But for some reason, I actually tried Mid Journey recently and I was not satisfied with the images I got from it.

[00:35:56] So I went back to Dali.

[00:35:58] Yeah.

[00:35:58] What she's saying is that, for example, if you want to visualize some of your work, you can actually get Chargipity.

[00:36:05] I do the paid version.

[00:36:07] I don't know if you're not paying for it.

[00:36:09] I don't know how many, how much you can use it.

[00:36:11] But I use it a lot in terms of really extracting data, organizing data.

[00:36:14] And the response you get when you're paid, when you're using the paid version is just so much more better as well.

[00:36:21] Yeah.

[00:36:21] I use it a lot for organizing data.

[00:36:23] It's actually my assistant in that way.

[00:36:25] So it's my assistant.

[00:36:27] So, yes, you can use images so you can visualize some of your things, some of your work.

[00:36:32] You can actually visualize it.

[00:36:34] And that's what she was talking about when she talks about Mid Journey, that you can actually take it.

[00:36:38] And there are so many ways you can learn.

[00:36:40] You can go on places like X or you can go on YouTube and learn these things if you're really interested in that.

[00:36:48] So I want to talk about your writing services and authoring in terms of that.

[00:36:53] Because what I realize that a lot of authors struggle with is not lack of talent in the market.

[00:37:00] I've been a judge and I've read quite a lot of stories.

[00:37:03] And I know that there's quite a big, talented number of authors out there.

[00:37:08] But the struggle, because it's like a struggle to be heard amongst the noise.

[00:37:14] So how would author harness the digital and the AI service and all that in order for their voices to be more amplified out there?

[00:37:24] What do they need to do?

[00:37:26] So number one, when you say digital services, I have writing memberships, which is basically why I coach people, help coach people to write the first book.

[00:37:38] When you talk about harnessing and AI, amplifying the voices, you can ask an AI tool to help you with your book marketing campaign.

[00:37:49] It can do that for you.

[00:37:50] You would have to tweak it to make it yours, but sometimes it's generic.

[00:37:56] But I think if you give it the right prompts, the right commands, give the tool a good overview of your target audience.

[00:38:05] It can help you do that as well.

[00:38:07] But again, you will still need to basically personalize it.

[00:38:12] So it can help you with your social media calendar.

[00:38:15] There's so many ways that you can use it.

[00:38:18] Like I said, like an assistant.

[00:38:20] So in terms of amplifying your voice as an author, I think for me as a book coach, one of the biggest things that I see, honestly, is the lack of confidence in their own work.

[00:38:35] Even for people that have got traditional publishing deals.

[00:38:41] I can come to the self-published ones.

[00:38:45] There is a kind of, which I think is strange.

[00:38:48] You're like, okay, I've written the book now.

[00:38:49] I don't want to do any marketing.

[00:38:51] Darling, you have to, you want your book to sell.

[00:38:53] So you have to do the marketing.

[00:38:54] And if you're not willing to stand by your work and do the marketing, then how will people see you?

[00:39:03] How will you be heard?

[00:39:05] And I'm not saying that you need to be on every single social media platform.

[00:39:11] I'm not saying you need to stand in the street and tell everybody that you published your book.

[00:39:15] Maybe you do.

[00:39:16] I'm just saying that if you're traditionally published, don't just leave it down to your publisher.

[00:39:23] They're not going to do that for you anyway because their marketing departments are really tiny and they reserve what the marketing spend for the big authors.

[00:39:31] But you need to do your parts as well.

[00:39:33] Do you know what I mean?

[00:39:34] So I think that would really help you.

[00:39:36] And also, be proud of your work.

[00:39:40] When somebody says to you, what have you written?

[00:39:42] Don't go, oh, that small thing.

[00:39:44] Oh, don't worry about it.

[00:39:46] Own it.

[00:39:47] Yeah, I wrote it.

[00:39:48] It's about X, Y, Z.

[00:39:49] Perfect your pitch.

[00:39:50] Yes, I wrote it.

[00:39:51] It's about this.

[00:39:52] Do you know what I mean?

[00:39:53] Own it.

[00:39:54] And just talk about it confidently.

[00:39:56] Don't just smile and be all like, oh, I don't want to talk about it because da, da, da.

[00:40:01] Do you know what I mean?

[00:40:02] Like you need to own it because it's your book.

[00:40:04] So what people feel to realize is there's the craft of writing and there's the business of writing.

[00:40:14] And I'm such a Nigerian that I really like the business part.

[00:40:21] I like the business part.

[00:40:22] For me, that's interesting.

[00:40:24] And then I think when people think about writers, when they think about authors, I think they think we were in a cottage somewhere overlooking the, I don't know.

[00:40:36] Cornish cliffs or something.

[00:40:38] Overlooking the sea.

[00:40:39] So that still exists.

[00:40:41] Yeah.

[00:40:42] On a typewriter.

[00:40:43] In the real world.

[00:40:44] Yeah.

[00:40:45] On a typewriter.

[00:40:46] And we wait for inspiration to strike.

[00:40:49] Do you know, like early in my career, I remember this guy talking to me and he said, I went for a dub interview.

[00:40:53] I said, this is very early in my career.

[00:40:55] I went for a dub interview as a web editor.

[00:40:58] So there were two guys here.

[00:41:01] Let me just do my guy talk.

[00:41:02] They're sitting like this in the interview.

[00:41:05] And I'm talking.

[00:41:06] And I'm talking like, yeah, this is what I'm doing.

[00:41:10] I can work on this website.

[00:41:12] I can do X, Y, Z.

[00:41:13] So the other guy was just looking at me like this.

[00:41:15] Literally.

[00:41:18] And at one point, he just sat like this and he said, listen, I just want to know if you can keep the website updated.

[00:41:27] That we don't have any issues.

[00:41:29] I just need to know that you're not going to wake up one morning and say you're not going to do any writing because you're not inspired.

[00:41:36] That you're not feeling it.

[00:41:38] I was just like.

[00:41:40] That's me.

[00:41:40] Yeah, that's what he said to me.

[00:41:42] And the way you work in corporate anyway, like when you have a night to die, you work in corporate like Carham.

[00:41:47] I worked in financial services.

[00:41:48] I worked in the government sector.

[00:41:50] I worked in the cabinet office.

[00:41:52] I was on the projective that launched GovK.

[00:41:56] I worked for charities.

[00:41:58] And the reason I mentioned all these three, they're very different industries.

[00:42:02] Yeah.

[00:42:02] Yeah.

[00:42:03] But then the thing is, it is work.

[00:42:05] If a company, if they spent millions of pounds on a website or a campaign, you're not just going to wake up and say, I'm not feeling it.

[00:42:14] Like you get up and do the work.

[00:42:16] And writing a book is no different.

[00:42:18] Do you know what I mean?

[00:42:19] You don't just go up there like you only write when you're feeling inspired.

[00:42:23] Child, you just get out there.

[00:42:24] The inspiration comes a lot of the time, 99.9% of the time when you're writing.

[00:42:29] Yeah.

[00:42:31] If you can go beyond the barrier, because I know I have to say that, yeah, it's creativity and life happens.

[00:42:39] And I know that for me, one of the things that stopped me years ago from going on to write after my book that I had written and not writing after that book was always life.

[00:42:51] Life was happening.

[00:42:52] And I just could not bring myself to write.

[00:42:55] But now, even when life is happening, I just thought to myself, my child, you don't know when your last day is.

[00:43:01] So force it.

[00:43:04] Force.

[00:43:04] That's wisdom, though, isn't it?

[00:43:06] That's come from wisdom and experience.

[00:43:08] Even Pressfield, let me see if it pressfield, wrote a book called The War of Art.

[00:43:14] And what it was all about is that there's a resistance.

[00:43:16] Whether you like it or not, resistance can come from anywhere.

[00:43:19] It can come from issues.

[00:43:21] It can come from health issues.

[00:43:22] It can come from family issues.

[00:43:23] It can come from life issues, all kinds of issues.

[00:43:26] So you either push through the resistance or you just decided I'm not a writer or I'm not a creative.

[00:43:33] And because the problem I had was I was miserable as well.

[00:43:38] But life was happening and I felt, oh, that thing is preventing me.

[00:43:42] This was how I felt that it's preventing me from writing.

[00:43:45] And I was very miserable.

[00:43:46] Now I said, look, it happens.

[00:43:49] But it's not going to prevent me.

[00:43:51] However it is, I'll push through.

[00:43:53] Even if I have to write 200 words a day, I'll push through that resistance.

[00:43:57] Because when you push through the resistance, the creativity comes.

[00:44:00] It will just open up.

[00:44:01] Yeah.

[00:44:01] I had a friend, bless her heart, and then she said she'd always wanted to write a book.

[00:44:05] And she said, I just, what about time, Abidemi?

[00:44:08] I just don't have the time.

[00:44:10] And this is what I tell my students, say to people.

[00:44:12] Because people ask me all kinds of questions.

[00:44:14] Abidemi, when is the best time to write?

[00:44:16] There is no best time.

[00:44:17] It's the time that's, the best time to write is the time that's best for you.

[00:44:21] End of.

[00:44:22] So these are the kind of questions I get, which to us might seem like that's a bit odd.

[00:44:26] But actually, if you're a newbie, it seems like a really good and important question.

[00:44:31] But anyway, back to my friend.

[00:44:32] And I just said, she said, I'd love to write a book.

[00:44:36] And I've got this idea.

[00:44:37] How am I going to find the time?

[00:44:38] I'm so tired and so busy.

[00:44:40] I said, why don't you just write in the time you have?

[00:44:44] Write in the time you have.

[00:44:46] She went away and then she called me, I think, a couple of days after.

[00:44:48] And she said, this is what I'm going to do.

[00:44:51] Because I said to her, write in the time you have.

[00:44:53] If all you have is five minutes a day, then do that.

[00:44:55] If all you have is 10 minutes a day or one hour a week, that's fine.

[00:44:59] Do that.

[00:45:00] Yeah.

[00:45:00] There's so many techniques, so many things, so many ways.

[00:45:03] Yeah.

[00:45:03] And then she came back a couple of days after.

[00:45:05] She said, you know what?

[00:45:07] I've decided to take your advice.

[00:45:08] I'm going to write for five minutes every day in the kitchen, on my kitchen table.

[00:45:14] Oh, wow.

[00:45:15] And literally, that's what she did.

[00:45:16] She said, the Pomodoro.

[00:45:18] Yeah, technique.

[00:45:19] Yeah.

[00:45:20] Then I set my timer on my iPhone, set it to five minutes.

[00:45:24] So on my tiny kitchen table, and I just wrote.

[00:45:27] And then she came to me a couple of months after.

[00:45:30] She's written like 20,000 words or something.

[00:45:32] Wow.

[00:45:33] Yeah.

[00:45:33] I know somebody who just finds time.

[00:45:35] She's so prolific, somebody I know.

[00:45:38] And she said, even in between, like, her children, dropping off her children for sports events

[00:45:43] or for any kind of event that she's dropping them or for school runs and all that, she will

[00:45:47] sit by the car when she's waiting for those five minutes she's writing.

[00:45:49] Yeah.

[00:45:50] When I was broke, busted, and disgusted, I didn't have a laptop.

[00:45:54] So I basically just wrote on my phone.

[00:45:56] It's Google Docs, isn't it?

[00:45:57] So you just.

[00:45:59] On my way to work.

[00:46:00] But we just.

[00:46:02] So people think you have to have this amazing setting.

[00:46:06] Really?

[00:46:06] And then.

[00:46:07] Yeah.

[00:46:08] And there's so many tools out there.

[00:46:09] So I was just going to talk about.

[00:46:11] This is what we're talking about now.

[00:46:13] So I'm going to just go into upskilling and learning new things.

[00:46:16] What advice do you tell writers to.

[00:46:19] What do you advise writers now with this?

[00:46:21] The technology is evolving.

[00:46:23] And I don't.

[00:46:25] For me, personally, I don't advise it to be running after every technology.

[00:46:28] But what are your key technology that people, writers should have and harness that are free

[00:46:34] out there for them to just use?

[00:46:35] And honestly, if you don't want to use Claude or any other AI tool, then don't.

[00:46:42] No one's forcing you.

[00:46:43] Me and Gaster.

[00:46:44] Honestly, no one's forcing you.

[00:46:46] I just want to make that clear.

[00:46:48] And the second thing is don't go after shiny object syndrome.

[00:46:52] Yeah.

[00:46:52] You need to find out.

[00:46:54] Like just because, you know, some famous writer said they wrote six hours a day on a gold or a diamond and crusted tablet

[00:47:02] doesn't mean that you need to go and get yourself a diamond and crusted tablet.

[00:47:06] I will probably say to you, just keep it simple.

[00:47:09] For me, there's some people that use Cravener.

[00:47:11] Some people use other writing tools.

[00:47:13] I can't be asked with all that personally.

[00:47:15] But I know some other people do.

[00:47:17] And that's OK.

[00:47:18] Don't get here.

[00:47:19] That's fine.

[00:47:19] For me, it's just always been a Google Doc.

[00:47:22] There's another tool that I tried to use in Atticus.

[00:47:25] And it's, yeah, I used, then it was fine.

[00:47:28] But then it was just, I just, but I've come to the conclusion that I just like to, I like to keep things simple.

[00:47:35] So I use the Google Docs.

[00:47:37] And when it goes to my copy editor development, so it just, I just download it as a Word document because you can do that.

[00:47:42] And then that's what they use.

[00:47:43] Because I don't know why.

[00:47:44] What do you use with editors?

[00:47:45] Why are they so allergic to Google Docs?

[00:47:48] It's really weird.

[00:47:49] But, yeah, so that's what I use.

[00:47:51] You need to upscale.

[00:47:53] But if the thought of upscaling really brings you out in sweat, nobody's saying that you have to use AI tools.

[00:48:00] Nobody's, do you know what I mean?

[00:48:01] But you need to figure out and focus on what works for you.

[00:48:05] And to be honest with you, the most important thing is the book.

[00:48:11] Honestly, like so many people worry about, oh, my God, how am I going to market it?

[00:48:16] You haven't even written one word of that.

[00:48:18] To write the book for students.

[00:48:19] Yeah.

[00:48:20] Yeah, but do you know what I mean?

[00:48:21] So the book is the most important thing.

[00:48:22] Like, you're so focused on, oh, God, and oh, then we have to do a book signing.

[00:48:27] Which book signing?

[00:48:28] You have not written one full stop of your book.

[00:48:33] Yeah.

[00:48:34] Yeah.

[00:48:34] So keep it simple.

[00:48:35] Figure out what works for you.

[00:48:37] And I think a lot of the time when people start thinking about all the big things, really, it's just a way to keep their mind.

[00:48:48] It's a distraction that they unconsciously use to prevent them from writing the book itself.

[00:48:57] That used to be me.

[00:49:00] I remember complaining because I had lots of, I've got lots of author friends, as you do.

[00:49:05] And I would see them, they would come out and say, oh, book number two, book number three, book number four, book number five is all done.

[00:49:12] So I would come and say, I really envy you for doing this.

[00:49:15] And one day, one of the author friends, my author friend just said, look, look, I don't know what you're talking about.

[00:49:21] Just sit down and write.

[00:49:23] Yeah.

[00:49:24] It was so simple.

[00:49:28] You said that is what I do.

[00:49:29] I sit down and write.

[00:49:32] Honestly, that's literally, that's it.

[00:49:35] So everything else, all this noise.

[00:49:38] I don't know what all this noise is about.

[00:49:41] Everything else is just white noise.

[00:49:42] It's important to you, you do it.

[00:49:44] Yeah.

[00:49:45] You find a way, you find a way, you make it work for you.

[00:49:48] You find a way to make it work.

[00:49:50] And I think if you're really struggling, there's a book that I've read, James Clare.

[00:49:56] Yes.

[00:49:57] The Atomic Habits.

[00:49:58] Yes.

[00:49:59] So if you're thinking, oh God, these two women are giving me homework.

[00:50:04] There's so many books.

[00:50:05] That one is the number one book I would recommend.

[00:50:07] Atomic Habits is fantastic.

[00:50:09] It tells you about the power of compounding.

[00:50:12] And I think, let me just root it in real life experience.

[00:50:15] That my friend that wrote the book in five minutes, that is compounding.

[00:50:19] Yeah.

[00:50:20] She wrote it in five minutes, compounding.

[00:50:23] And then, and it just started stacking and stacking.

[00:50:25] And then at the end, she had like a 20,000 book.

[00:50:27] She never published a book, but.

[00:50:29] Well, she's done it.

[00:50:30] She did it.

[00:50:31] She wanted.

[00:50:33] That's it.

[00:50:33] That's great.

[00:50:34] Yeah.

[00:50:34] I'm going to ask you a blue sky kind of thinking now.

[00:50:38] So I want to take you between five and 10 years time.

[00:50:43] How do you see this landscape?

[00:50:44] Because I, my, I work in my day job is in technical writing.

[00:50:51] And we know that AI is going to, we know that AI is going to be an assistant.

[00:50:55] It's going to be an assistant, but there'll be differences in the job.

[00:51:00] So how do you see the writer's job in five to 10 years?

[00:51:03] And I'm not talking about fiction alone.

[00:51:05] I'm talking about fiction and nonfiction.

[00:51:08] In five, 10 years time.

[00:51:10] Five to 10 years from now.

[00:51:11] Yeah.

[00:51:12] Industry.

[00:51:14] There will still be jobs, but there will be jobs for people with AI skills.

[00:51:19] So you're wanting to get with the program.

[00:51:24] Yeah.

[00:51:25] They will want people that can write, that can write prompts, like that can write prompts.

[00:51:29] So basically train, you know, if you're working in the company, help you, you know,

[00:51:33] help them to train the in-house bot, for instance, that's the job of a writer.

[00:51:38] You want to, and obviously you will work with the tech guys to do that.

[00:51:41] I did have a job like that once.

[00:51:43] When you had this chat thing is that you go on just writing the responses.

[00:51:47] That was, it's a fun little job.

[00:51:49] I like to do stuff like that.

[00:51:50] So, yeah.

[00:51:52] I think, yeah, in five to 10 years time, the landscape is going to change.

[00:51:57] And I think this is, using AI is just going to be commonplace, honestly.

[00:52:01] I think it's going to be commonplace.

[00:52:02] Everybody's just going to be using it.

[00:52:04] It's going to be commonplace.

[00:52:05] So, I think if you're saying that you don't want to learn, I will say to you, fine, that's

[00:52:10] your choice.

[00:52:11] I think it's worth knowing.

[00:52:13] It's worth learning to do.

[00:52:16] But if you're stressing about AI and not working on your book right now, I would say focus

[00:52:21] on the book.

[00:52:23] That's the most important thing.

[00:52:25] So, do you think in the future there will be less needs for writers?

[00:52:29] There will always be writers.

[00:52:31] There will always be.

[00:52:34] I'm not saying that there will be writers.

[00:52:35] So, let's say we have, I'm just asking these questions now.

[00:52:38] So, let's say we have 1,000 writers and five to 10 years time.

[00:52:44] What do you see?

[00:52:45] We probably have a hundred.

[00:52:48] We probably have a hundred.

[00:52:51] In five to 10 years time, people are just not going to be looking for writers.

[00:52:55] They're going to be looking for people that have multidisciplinary skills, for instance.

[00:53:02] Look at someone like me.

[00:53:04] So, I write books.

[00:53:04] Look at someone like you.

[00:53:05] You write books.

[00:53:06] You're a crime writer.

[00:53:07] But then you have a job as a technical writer.

[00:53:10] We're both fortunate, actually, because in our jobs, the corporate lives as well, we

[00:53:15] also, so we're really fortunate.

[00:53:16] So, I think, but then you can do digital stuff as well.

[00:53:19] And I can do digital stuff as well.

[00:53:20] So, I think in five to 10 years time, people like us already, like if you're working content,

[00:53:26] there's an assumption that you should know about AI and SEO and UX and all those kinds

[00:53:31] of things.

[00:53:32] But I think in five to 10 years time, it's just going to be de-rigger.

[00:53:35] It's just going to be the norm.

[00:53:37] What do you mean you're a writer?

[00:53:38] What do you mean you're a content person that you don't know about this stuff?

[00:53:41] This is going to be part and parcel.

[00:53:42] We want an all-rounder to be able to do this stuff.

[00:53:45] Okay.

[00:53:47] So, talking about content, content is not just writing, although we focused on writing

[00:53:51] today.

[00:53:52] So, what do you see about being more human as a writer?

[00:53:57] How does a writer come across as more human?

[00:54:00] Because as more machines are going to be doing quite a few bits of writing, people are going

[00:54:06] to be almost like a premium, isn't it?

[00:54:08] If you say you're the person behind this, you're almost as a premium, isn't it?

[00:54:12] Because you're not a machine.

[00:54:15] So, content is audio as well, isn't it?

[00:54:17] And video.

[00:54:18] Yeah, it's audio, it's video.

[00:54:20] What do you say to those?

[00:54:21] What do you say to people, writers?

[00:54:23] Not every writer wants to do audio or video.

[00:54:25] We know that.

[00:54:26] Yeah.

[00:54:26] What do I want to do?

[00:54:27] What are your suggestions for them in being more human?

[00:54:31] I think it's interesting because even now, I can see a definite kind of trend.

[00:54:36] And when people know that something has been written by AI, they don't like it.

[00:54:40] They're like, no.

[00:54:41] And they can tell.

[00:54:42] Yeah.

[00:54:44] They're like, no, I want a human.

[00:54:46] I want a human.

[00:54:47] As a human being seen this.

[00:54:49] So, I think.

[00:54:49] So, there's definitely going to be that kind of, what's the word?

[00:54:54] You know, I think the word is coexistence.

[00:54:58] Do you know what I mean?

[00:54:58] So, I think your skills as a writer, that's what you bring to the table.

[00:55:06] So, if you're looking for a job, I don't know, a job in the nine to five as a writer or something.

[00:55:12] Yes, there will be the AI stuff there.

[00:55:14] You would expect it to be an all-rounder.

[00:55:18] But the premium that you're talking about is that human element.

[00:55:22] Because people, it's funny because when people know that something is AI written, they just like recoil.

[00:55:27] Oh, my gosh.

[00:55:27] But then they're not meant to know.

[00:55:29] Because before you release the stuff out into the world anyway, you should have made it more.

[00:55:34] You should have personalized the content and output that you get.

[00:55:37] That's if you're using it to write content anyway.

[00:55:39] So, I know there's a lot of concern.

[00:55:43] There's a lot of concern.

[00:55:44] And I think you also should do your due diligence.

[00:55:48] You don't accept everything that you see on social media, but I hope not.

[00:55:52] You don't accept everything that you see on Google.

[00:55:55] Even though Google tries to do a really good job to make sure that it fact checks in terms of the integrity of the website that it gives us.

[00:56:03] But you also should do your due diligence.

[00:56:07] When I was working on something in AI the other day, and it gave me an example, I'm like, no, that's too generic.

[00:56:14] And then the AI tool said to me, how about you upload your framework?

[00:56:19] Oh.

[00:56:20] Yeah, upload your framework for writing so that my answers can be more in tune, more in line with your writing voice and style.

[00:56:29] So, I said, okay, that's an interesting one.

[00:56:33] It's not going to write my book.

[00:56:35] It's not going to write my book or write anything.

[00:56:38] Yeah, so I was looking for generous examples of a writing scene because I was teaching for a writing exercise.

[00:56:45] I remember one day I sat down.

[00:56:47] This is five years ago.

[00:56:48] I sat down and I wrote 100 writing exercises manually.

[00:56:54] And then I was just creating scenes.

[00:56:56] And I did that manually by a couple of years ago.

[00:56:58] So, I was updating the materials.

[00:57:00] So, I was just like, okay, give me an example just like this.

[00:57:03] But I didn't like the example that it gave me.

[00:57:07] So, I said, okay, what about, I said, I want something that's more in line with my books and stuff.

[00:57:11] So, it's a lot more original.

[00:57:13] Okay, fine.

[00:57:13] Let's just upload your framework.

[00:57:15] I'm like, okay.

[00:57:15] We'll come back to that, Claude.

[00:57:17] Not today.

[00:57:21] We'll come back to that, Claude.

[00:57:23] But not today.

[00:57:24] Interesting.

[00:57:26] Yeah.

[00:57:28] The discussion around AI, I think because I work in the field and that for us is like the norm.

[00:57:36] So, we're not as, we are level-headed.

[00:57:40] Whereas for some people, like they're not, they don't work in the field.

[00:57:44] For them, all I've just said is horror stories.

[00:57:46] So, for them, it's just, nah, I don't want anything to do with it.

[00:57:48] But I would hope that when people have listened to this, it will give them like peace of mind.

[00:57:56] Peace of mind.

[00:57:57] So, in terms of the services that you're offering, can you tell our audience what kind of services you offer?

[00:58:03] So, that's...

[00:58:04] Yeah, sure.

[00:58:04] Well, so, ReadyWriter offers online writing membership.

[00:58:09] There are two tiers.

[00:58:10] The ReadyWriter hub, which is for aspiring authors.

[00:58:16] Basically, you master the fundamentals of writing and publishing.

[00:58:20] You learn about the industry.

[00:58:22] You master the fundamentals of the writing crafts.

[00:58:24] And then once you've done that, then you can apply or you can join the main membership,

[00:58:29] which is the ReadyWriter Accelerator, where you learn about the craft of writing.

[00:58:34] And then the business of writing and how to scale your author business.

[00:58:40] It's very much focused on execution.

[00:58:43] So, none of this...

[00:58:44] I woke up in the morning and I didn't feel the urge to write, so I didn't.

[00:58:48] Really, it's about helping you find the time to write, helping you to be more productive

[00:58:53] and get that book out of your head and into the world.

[00:58:55] The hub is for people at the start of their journey who you don't know anything about the writing

[00:59:02] or publishing industry, not even like the terms.

[00:59:05] There was a few years ago, just a quick story.

[00:59:08] A lady, she said she gave an editor her manuscript to edit.

[00:59:14] And she paid the person, I think, like $100 or $200 or something.

[00:59:18] And what she got back, it just really wasn't what she was expecting.

[00:59:23] So a couple of people chimed in and they said, yeah, because she's a copy editor.

[00:59:29] You need...

[00:59:30] Not all editors are created equal.

[00:59:33] They're different.

[00:59:34] Yeah, she was going to self-publish.

[00:59:36] She said, yeah, you've been had.

[00:59:38] But again, you're paying somebody $200 to edit, what, 60, 60, 70,000 worth book.

[00:59:44] Hello?

[00:59:46] More money.

[00:59:46] You need to pay more money for that.

[00:59:48] Yeah, precisely.

[00:59:49] By the end of the day, but she didn't need a copy editor.

[00:59:51] She needed a developmental editor.

[00:59:55] Yeah.

[00:59:56] So these are the things like...

[00:59:58] So you really learn about the writing and publishing industry, the terms to use,

[01:00:02] like the terminology, what it's like to work with an editor, those kind of key integral

[01:00:06] things.

[01:00:07] And the whole thing about the writing, we needed to change a lot of the work at the hub.

[01:00:12] It's also about changing your mindset as well.

[01:00:15] Turning around from having this imposter syndrome to that of a winner.

[01:00:19] Because otherwise you would never get your book started.

[01:00:22] So yeah.

[01:00:23] And the website is...

[01:00:24] Can I say the website?

[01:00:25] Or do you want to share it?

[01:00:27] It's readywriter.co.uk.

[01:00:29] But I'm sure you can.

[01:00:32] We'll put a link in the show notes anyway.

[01:00:34] So I wanted to ask a question because I know this is just going away from even what I was

[01:00:39] going to ask, which is in terms of like publishing, because a lot of people don't even understand

[01:00:45] the trad publishing and the self-publishing.

[01:00:49] You understand?

[01:00:50] So can you just explain a little bit about that and what is unique to each of those?

[01:00:56] So these are the kind of differences that the things I also teach people at the ReadyWriter

[01:01:02] membership.

[01:01:03] A traditional publisher...

[01:01:07] So there's two publishing routes.

[01:01:09] The self-publishing route and the traditional publishing.

[01:01:11] I just know I'm just going to get crucified for this.

[01:01:15] Wait, wait.

[01:01:16] I'm putting you on your spot.

[01:01:17] Yes.

[01:01:18] The traditional publishing route has traditionally been seen as to be more...

[01:01:26] Keep going.

[01:01:27] Yeah.

[01:01:28] So essentially, when you're traditionally published, traditionally, people just think within the

[01:01:34] day in publishing, if you're traditionally published, it will seem to have more credibility

[01:01:40] because there's a kind of gatekeeping system.

[01:01:43] When you have your book published via traditional publisher, they take on all the costs.

[01:01:48] Editorial costs, the production costs, and all the rest of it.

[01:01:50] You don't have to pay anything.

[01:01:52] And then they pay you an advance.

[01:01:54] This is the one that people get hooked on an advance.

[01:01:56] And the advance really is...

[01:01:58] Think of it as a loan.

[01:02:00] You never have to pay back against your future salary.

[01:02:04] Does that make sense?

[01:02:05] It's a loan that you never have to pay back, but it's against your future salary, which is

[01:02:10] like your royalties.

[01:02:11] If by some miracle, you happen to get a publishing deal with a traditional publisher, you will

[01:02:17] need a literary agent, by the way.

[01:02:19] And they're essentially gatekeepers.

[01:02:21] But that's another conversation for another day.

[01:02:23] But if you get a traditional publishing deal...

[01:02:24] I'm sorry.

[01:02:25] Yeah.

[01:02:26] If you get a traditional publishing deal, let's say they give you an advance of, I don't

[01:02:29] know, 1,000, 3,000 or 5,000, your agent will probably take about...

[01:02:33] How much did they take?

[01:02:34] 10%, 20%, 15%.

[01:02:36] 15%.

[01:02:37] Yeah.

[01:02:38] However much they take.

[01:02:39] And then that advance, essentially, you have to earn it out.

[01:02:43] Usually, you're paid 50% when you sign and then 50% when the book comes out.

[01:02:48] But sometimes it's 35% or 33% when you sign your traditional publishing deal, when you

[01:02:56] get your draft done, and when it comes out.

[01:02:59] It varies.

[01:03:00] And so when the book is published, obviously, the 5,000 pounds or whatever advance they've

[01:03:05] given you, do they give people that much nowadays?

[01:03:07] Whatever your advance is, the publisher, obviously, they have to make their money back.

[01:03:12] Because that advance they've given you really is just a golden handshake money.

[01:03:17] They're just part of their faith in you.

[01:03:18] So when your book is published, yeah, the sales from that book, before you start getting your

[01:03:25] royalties, they will take the amounts, the advance that they've given you out of those

[01:03:29] royalties.

[01:03:29] So when you hear people say, oh, that advance never ends up, that most books don't earn out

[01:03:35] their advance.

[01:03:36] So with them, but you never have to pay it back.

[01:03:38] That's a good thing.

[01:03:39] That's a good thing.

[01:03:40] But it just means that if your book fails, it's very hard.

[01:03:44] It's very impossible for you to get another publishing deal.

[01:03:47] So you see, back in the day, we used to have what we used to call mid-list authors.

[01:03:51] Who went famous?

[01:03:53] Whose books did not fly off the shelves, but sold kind of solidly?

[01:03:57] I think that's been obliterated now.

[01:03:59] But then if you want to...

[01:04:01] Yeah, explain why.

[01:04:03] Oh, why?

[01:04:04] Oh, because self-publishing happened.

[01:04:07] And we have celebrity books.

[01:04:08] But if you decide to go via the self-publishing route, it just means that you basically are

[01:04:15] the publishing company.

[01:04:17] You are the writer.

[01:04:18] You're responsible for the book cover.

[01:04:20] You obviously get a graphic designer or book designer to help you design the cover.

[01:04:25] You are the accountant.

[01:04:27] Basically, you are...

[01:04:29] Publishing house.

[01:04:30] Yeah, you do everything yourself.

[01:04:32] But any money that you make from it is all entirely yours.

[01:04:37] And aside from...

[01:04:39] Remember?

[01:04:40] Yeah, taxes.

[01:04:40] The platform.

[01:04:41] Not just the platform.

[01:04:43] Oh, yes.

[01:04:44] And yeah, essentially.

[01:04:45] Yeah.

[01:04:46] So basically, what's that?

[01:04:47] I was just saying, apart from the platform.

[01:04:48] So if you've written a book and what I want to help publish it, there are platforms that

[01:04:53] you can upload your book like Amazon, Kobo, Apple, Google Play.

[01:04:57] Okay.

[01:04:58] So some of them, they take like a percentage, whether that's 1% or what have you.

[01:05:03] But you can choose to host your website to...

[01:05:09] It's 30%.

[01:05:10] Yes.

[01:05:11] Depending on how much you want to sell the book for.

[01:05:13] Yeah, yeah.

[01:05:14] Depending on how much...

[01:05:15] So let's say you're selling it at the highest that will get you the 70% and they pay you

[01:05:21] 90 days after.

[01:05:23] Yes.

[01:05:24] Yes.

[01:05:25] That's important to know.

[01:05:26] That's very important to know.

[01:05:28] That's very important to know.

[01:05:29] So if you uploaded your book in January, you won't get your first pay from Amazon until

[01:05:37] April, March, April.

[01:05:39] March, April.

[01:05:40] It will be April.

[01:05:41] Yeah.

[01:05:43] So there's a lot more to...

[01:05:45] So we've just given...

[01:05:46] So this is the business of writing that we've just talked about.

[01:05:51] This is the bit that people don't really like, oh, we're all about the craft and the beauty

[01:05:55] of writing.

[01:05:56] This is the business of writing that we've just talked about here.

[01:05:59] And it's really important that you understand this bit, especially as if you're going down

[01:06:05] the self-publishing route.

[01:06:06] But also, if you're really into traditional publishing as well, you need to learn about

[01:06:11] running ads, like Facebook ads.

[01:06:13] Some people say, is it worth it running Facebook ads if I'm a traditionally published author?

[01:06:20] It depends on you.

[01:06:21] If you're self-published, I will say definitely I think it's worth it.

[01:06:25] There's so many ways you can market your book and stuff.

[01:06:27] So the business side of being an author, and I think not many people pay attention to it.

[01:06:36] I just think it's a shame.

[01:06:37] This is just so important.

[01:06:40] I love it.

[01:06:41] Yeah.

[01:06:41] I absolutely love the business side.

[01:06:46] That's the Nigerian in you.

[01:06:48] Because you're a hustler, baby.

[01:06:49] I love the business side of writing.

[01:06:51] I love the technology behind this.

[01:06:54] Yeah.

[01:06:55] What I do, you know.

[01:06:57] I'll tell you what I've done.

[01:06:58] I write under a season as well, because I have two audiences.

[01:07:01] I heard.

[01:07:02] A little bird told me.

[01:07:03] Yeah.

[01:07:04] So I have a general audience, and I have a Christian audience, because I never did actually

[01:07:08] abandon that.

[01:07:09] So what I've done, and this is the business side, because I'm a hustler, baby.

[01:07:14] That's what I do.

[01:07:16] You're welcome.

[01:07:18] Yeah.

[01:07:19] So essentially, I've created two direct sales websites, so people can actually order.

[01:07:27] Yeah.

[01:07:29] Yeah.

[01:07:30] Why two?

[01:07:31] Why don't you?

[01:07:32] No, because they're two different audiences.

[01:07:36] And I didn't want to get them.

[01:07:38] Okay.

[01:07:38] One for your Christian audience and one for your...

[01:07:40] Yes.

[01:07:40] Okay.

[01:07:40] And I didn't want to get my pixel and my whatever kind of mixed up, because I monitor

[01:07:46] those conversion rates.

[01:07:48] I'm looking at it like, where are they, where are people coming from?

[01:07:52] So yeah, again, this is the business part of it.

[01:07:56] And we can talk about this, because we've written the book.

[01:07:59] So if you're listening to this, and you've yet to put pen to paper, listen about the

[01:08:05] business side of it.

[01:08:06] It's important, but write your book first.

[01:08:09] Write your book.

[01:08:09] It's true.

[01:08:09] This one is all about you writing your book first.

[01:08:12] I had to segue a little bit into the business of writing, because I know Abidemi will give

[01:08:16] us some...

[01:08:18] And I'm sure at some point in the future, we'll probably have you back.

[01:08:21] So where can the audience reach you?

[01:08:25] If they want to connect with you, where are they best?

[01:08:27] Yeah, sure.

[01:08:27] Just go to the website, readywriter.co.uk forward slash contact, or just go to readywriter.co.uk.

[01:08:35] The website is on there.

[01:08:37] You can contact me, join the writing membership on there.

[01:08:40] It's nice and simple.

[01:08:41] Readywriter.co.uk.

[01:08:43] Because I like working with writers that are ready.

[01:08:49] And the whole point is called Ready Writer.

[01:08:51] It's rooted in my faith.

[01:08:54] But when people come to the website, it just really gets towards getting people just to

[01:09:03] write.

[01:09:03] Because that's the biggest thing.

[01:09:05] People have so many ideas in their head.

[01:09:08] And they just can't seem to write.

[01:09:11] They just can't seem to get their head done and do it.

[01:09:13] And I think people like us, we have two heads.

[01:09:15] But I think we've explained to people that we're just like you.

[01:09:18] We're just like you.

[01:09:19] But you find the time.

[01:09:21] You create the time.

[01:09:22] You create the time to make it work.

[01:09:24] It's not because we're special.

[01:09:27] We've heard that we have jobs as well.

[01:09:29] We've had...

[01:09:30] Yeah.

[01:09:31] So it's the most important thing is being consistent.

[01:09:34] Yeah.

[01:09:35] Thank you so much, Abidemi.

[01:09:37] I really appreciate you coming to the podcast.

[01:09:40] Now, if you're watching this on YouTube, my subscription...

[01:09:46] Subscribers on YouTube is like this.

[01:09:48] Just...

[01:09:48] It's not even two digits yet.

[01:09:50] Because I'm uploading to that.

[01:09:52] So if you're listening to it on YouTube, like it and subscribe.

[01:09:57] If you want me to continue, if you want to enjoy more of what I'm producing, and subscribe.

[01:10:02] And any other platform, you can say hi to anyone.

[01:10:07] So Abidemi as well.

[01:10:08] Very happy to hear from you.

[01:10:11] Talking Tech with Creative Podcast is going to have a Patreon very soon.

[01:10:15] The reason why I'm doing a Patreon is to...

[01:10:18] I am quite passionate about teaching.

[01:10:21] So I'm going to have quite a lot of videos on little nuggets for technology for people that are starting out who are quite interested.

[01:10:30] It's not going to be very complicated.

[01:10:31] It's going to be starting from simple to advanced, depending on where you are.

[01:10:38] So that's the idea.

[01:10:39] It's not up yet.

[01:10:40] I'm just letting you know in advance.

[01:10:41] So thank you very much for listening.

[01:10:45] Bye.

[01:10:46] Can I quickly say something about your book before we go?

[01:10:48] Oh God.

[01:10:49] Go on then.

[01:10:50] I already said bye bye.

[01:10:52] Go on then.

[01:10:52] Go on then.

[01:10:53] But do you remember when I read your book?

[01:10:55] And I WhatsApped you?

[01:10:57] You did, you do.

[01:10:58] I did.

[01:11:03] What kind of book is this?

[01:11:04] I cannot sleep.

[01:11:07] I scared you, eh?

[01:11:08] Oh, you terrified me.

[01:11:10] A lot of people were scared.

[01:11:11] I think it was set out to scare.

[01:11:13] Oh my gosh.

[01:11:15] It's inspired.

[01:11:16] What was going on inside your head?

[01:11:18] But that is...

[01:11:19] It's inspired by what is going on out there, darling.

[01:11:23] Isn't it?

[01:11:24] Seriously.

[01:11:25] Seriously.

[01:11:25] That is what is going on.

[01:11:27] The world is a scary place sometimes.

[01:11:28] Out of my skull.

[01:11:29] So anyway, guys.

[01:11:30] If you haven't bought the book, go and buy it.

[01:11:32] Go and buy the book.

[01:11:34] I'm writing book two.

[01:11:36] Yes.

[01:11:37] Oh my gosh.

[01:11:40] I wrote Cozy Mysteries.

[01:11:41] I've got a lot of Cozy Mysteries.

[01:11:43] So I've got short stories.

[01:11:44] Yeah.

[01:11:45] Cozy Mysteries.

[01:11:46] I'll read that one.

[01:11:47] This one.

[01:11:48] If you don't want to...

[01:11:49] If you don't want to read Gritty, my police procedural...

[01:11:53] Yeah.

[01:11:53] I'm writing book two.

[01:11:55] My readers.

[01:11:56] I've been asking for book two since it came out in 2020.

[01:12:00] Yeah.

[01:12:00] I want to say, where is book two?

[01:12:02] So I'm writing book two now.

[01:12:04] Of my talks.

[01:12:05] I'll read the Cozy Mystery.

[01:12:06] Oh, the Cozy Mystery.

[01:12:08] I've got...

[01:12:08] This one here.

[01:12:09] It's an anthology.

[01:12:10] Actually, I'm showing this.

[01:12:11] Called A Rai Cozy Christmas Crime.

[01:12:13] I've got a story in there.

[01:12:15] Because there's a detective I've been developing.

[01:12:17] Her name is Lara.

[01:12:19] Okay.

[01:12:20] And I've got...

[01:12:22] I've done four stories around her.

[01:12:25] Wow.

[01:12:25] She's based in Nigeria.

[01:12:27] She's...

[01:12:27] I love her.

[01:12:28] I love her.

[01:12:29] And if you don't want anything too gritty, but at least you still want to read a good crime fiction.

[01:12:37] Yeah.

[01:12:38] Pick up any of my anthologies.

[01:12:40] Because I write my show.

[01:12:41] I've got a short story that is coming out as a standalone.

[01:12:44] It'll be coming for Christmas.

[01:12:45] But this one...

[01:12:46] And that's one of...

[01:12:47] Part of Lara Ayodeli's book.

[01:12:49] Yeah.

[01:12:50] I like when authors love the characters.

[01:12:52] My story is called Death of the Food Cellar.

[01:12:55] In here.

[01:12:56] Ooh.

[01:12:56] And it's based on street food in Lagos.

[01:13:00] Oh, amazing.

[01:13:01] I know you have a food blog.

[01:13:02] No go.

[01:13:03] No go.

[01:13:04] No...

[01:13:05] Nothing like that.

[01:13:06] It's just...

[01:13:08] I enjoyed writing it.

[01:13:10] And I'm good at Lara's stories.

[01:13:12] So, yeah.

[01:13:12] Happiness.

[01:13:13] I put that out there because of Abidemi.

[01:13:15] That's what I'm saying to you.

[01:13:17] Not to you.

[01:13:17] You don't have to buy...

[01:13:18] This is technology.

[01:13:19] You don't have to buy the books.

[01:13:21] Yes.

[01:13:22] Yes.

[01:13:22] Yes.

[01:13:22] I'm very happy.

[01:13:23] I was going to bring Gabi Demi's book.

[01:13:25] But I've left it somewhere downstairs.

[01:13:27] I was going to show it to you.

[01:13:29] Which we're looking for Bono.

[01:13:30] Yeah, please.

[01:13:31] Where is it?

[01:13:32] Bring it.

[01:13:32] Let's see.

[01:13:33] Okay.

[01:13:34] Show it.

[01:13:35] We're supposed to have gone, but we're still here.

[01:13:37] We're still here.

[01:13:38] That's just like...

[01:13:39] That's the problem with talking to you.

[01:13:41] We'll never see.

[01:13:42] I love talking to you.

[01:13:44] Can you see it?

[01:13:45] So, this is Looking for Bono.

[01:13:46] Looking for Bono.

[01:13:47] I've been saying...

[01:13:48] Look at me saying Waiting for Bono.

[01:13:50] Looking for Bono.

[01:13:51] Looking for Bono.

[01:13:52] I love this book.

[01:13:53] I love the book.

[01:13:54] I like authentic things set in different countries.

[01:13:59] Yes.

[01:14:00] Set in Nigeria.

[01:14:01] And the characters.

[01:14:02] I just love it.

[01:14:03] I love it.

[01:14:03] And if I haven't done the review at your...

[01:14:08] Look at that.

[01:14:09] Look at the talents.

[01:14:10] Technology.

[01:14:11] Honestly.

[01:14:12] Get writing, guys.

[01:14:14] Get writing.

[01:14:14] Bye.

[01:14:15] Bye.

[01:14:15] Bye.

[01:14:15] Bye.