From Music Producer to Tech Founder: Melody Nehemiah on Building Songdis for African Artists - ep 31

[00:00:14] Hi everyone, welcome to Talking Tech With Creatives. This is a podcast where we look at the intersection of technology, culture, art, just that intersection. My name is Stella Oni and I've been, I cannot believe it, but I've been doing this podcast for a year and a half now and I've had some amazing guests that have come onto the podcast and just doing podcasts has given me, enlightened me to the fact that

[00:00:44] there's a gap that this podcast fills, which is that gap between technology, culture, art. There's one more thing, but I can't remember that, but it fills a gap. So my guest today, I'm quite excited about my guest today. His name is Melody Nehemiah and he has, he comes from a music background. He's going to tell us more about himself. But so this is about music production. It's about creating a platform for artists.

[00:01:15] Outing, Melody is going to tell us more about it, but he's created a platform that allows artists to be able to get payments from all the other multiple platforms. So for example, if you had Spotify and all the other platforms that are, take your streaming. The Melody's platform is almost like, I would say like a middle bit there that collects from all that, like it is, it collects from those payment system to pay the artists. That's my advice.

[00:01:44] My own kind of understanding, but Melody is going to tell us about it. So Melody, welcome to the podcast. Before we talk about Song This, which is your platform. Tell us about yourself. Tell us about your background in music. What led you to this in terms of, because something has to be a pivot and I'm always interested in that. So tell us about yourself, Melody. Okay. Hi, everyone.

[00:02:10] Okay. Hi, everyone. Viewers that are watching at home and hello, Stella once again. My name is Melody Nehemiah. I'm the CEO and founder of Song This. Song This is a digital distribution platform that helps African independent artists and labels get their music everywhere in simple steps.

[00:02:29] So help them get their music to more than 200 digital platforms, Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, and more. Then help these artists collect realities and send to them. So in a very simple time, the music you listen to every now and then, the music whenever, the music you listen to whenever you are watching a movie, the music you listen to on your phone.

[00:02:54] Anytime you listen to these songs, it generates stream realities. So basically what we do for these artists is that we give them access to be able to just on and upload. Their music goes everywhere. Streaming platform, TV stations, video games. And whenever these songs are being exploited, it generates revenue.

[00:03:16] So what our platform do, we deliver this music to all these digital platforms. Then we collect the revenue and pay directly to the artists in their currency. Outside of that too, we also provide marketing support. For myself, I've been a music producer since 2015.

[00:03:36] I started working in the music industry as a... No, I had... When I was in school, when I was in secondary school, because I'm born and brought up from Kaduna State, where I grew up in Niger State, which is very close to Abuja. That is the capital of Nigeria. One of the things I used to do for my uncle then, my... Whenever I'm back from school on my free time, I used to sell CDs.

[00:03:59] For Nigerians, there's something we call Alaba. So when you want to listen for the era of streaming platform, if you want to listen to any music, you have to buy the CD and go and play. So what we used to do is that I used to help my uncle sell CDs and also... Yeah. So moving on, I started having interest in music production. I started music production from 2014 to 2022. So I was like making beats from Suleja. I moved to Abuja. I worked with artists.

[00:04:33] Because while I was working... Yeah, while I was working as a music producer, I was working with a lot of artists. I was producing for one of my artists that is very close to me. So I was making beats for him for free. I was recording him. I was doing marketing. I was also doing everything to make sure that act is prospered. So eventually, by God's grace, one of his songs went very viral.

[00:04:59] More than 100,000 Shazam and more than 3 million streams. So when the song went viral, we wanted to withdraw our realities. Even before we were able to distribute that particular song, we were looking for a distribution platform to use. For majority of people, you could join the platform. You have to have dollar cards. That was a problem for him. For me, I knew that I was very technical. I got my dollar card.

[00:05:27] I think Assess Bank was doing dollar cards. So I was able to have a dollar card that I would be able to pay something online. Because as a producer, you use different kinds of tools every day online. I need to buy those tools. So I have this card that I was using to buy. So I paid for the distribution platform that I was using to produce for my artists. Then when I paid for it, a lot of artists had similar issues. When they want to distribute their song, they'll give me the money in Nera. Then I will help them pay for that distribution platform.

[00:05:56] And at the end of the day, even after I pay, those artists, they don't still know how to upload. So I will still be the one to help them upload the music on this platform. So even after uploading this music, when it's time to withdraw realities or when the artists want to know, okay, how much they've made, they can message me around 12 a.m. when I'm sleeping. Alpha, please, I want to check my realities. I want to know what's up with how much I'm making.

[00:06:23] So it was very too much for me to control 50 people. And I'm using other platforms that don't necessarily know me. I'm just doing that because they are my artists. So it was like a problem. For the artists I was managing, that his song went very viral. I wanted to withdraw realities. After waiting for two years for the realities to climb up to almost $1,000, then we were like happy that finally, yeah, finally we are going to like withdraw this reality.

[00:06:53] And what we tend to do with the reality is to invest it back to the artist's career. Maybe just shoot something for promotion so that we can get to get more exposure. But when we wanted to withdraw the money, first of all, PayPal was not working in Africa. Before I could even get PayPal, I remember trying to register on PayPal. I watched almost all the videos on YouTube. I still know I have to use my friends, PayPal that stays in the UK.

[00:07:20] Then after that, I was able to, when we wanted to initiate the video, they now charge us 30% taxed us from the US. This is because we are not US citizens, right? So they take 30% from the $1,000, which is $300. Yes, that's $300 and they gave us $700. That's a big amount of money. Yes, yes. So it's something that is still happening up to now. I think the US have something they call tax treaty,

[00:07:50] a tax law like that called tax treaty. And most of the companies, yeah, most of some countries don't have that tax treaty with the US, like most African countries. Yes. So because of that, a lot of people have been complaining that, why will these people take 30% off my money without doing anything? Why would they just remove my funds like that? So because of that, I was, and now I think sometimes I will even message

[00:08:17] these artists to distribute that this is a problem that these people are facing. It's not good. I remember one time, one of these artists was sending death threats to me because he felt that I'm the one, like I'm the one holding, yes, I'm the one holding the money. So I have to explain this is how it is. This is how this is. You understand? Hello? Yeah, yeah. I can hear you. Yes. Yeah.

[00:08:47] Because of that, I was able to like, I now started thinking about it. I think in 2020, 2023 or, yeah, 2023, start 2022, I wanted to travel outside because I was just tired of creating beats because I'm always making beats. If you should check on YouTube, if you check on my channel, I have a lot of beats I've uploaded. So what I used to do is that if the video should release an album today, I will make the beats, exactly the beats,

[00:09:17] but without the voice on it, because some of these artists will not upload their instrumentals on YouTube. So I will go through the process of remaking the beats. Then when I remake it, sorry, please hold on, let me. Hi, when I like, yeah, when I remake these beats, I'll upload it on some of these platforms. Then when I upload it, many acts is, obviously YouTube is global.

[00:09:46] Many people will go to YouTube, they will check the beats and they will download it, they will reach out to me. So because of that, I had a lot of artists I was working in. A majority of the time, they will need distribution. You understand? Because whenever you make a song, you want to get it out there to the world. So I'm always the guy that will meet for distribution because I have a track record of making somebody's song. Like an artist with no record label, a song just went viral, people were streaming the song from abroad.

[00:10:17] Yeah, so yeah, in essence, instead of going and signing a label or any of those things, you are bypassing all that and going straight to the people. With the... Yeah. I'll ask you a question before you continue because not everybody is from a music background. So tell us, what is a beat? Okay, a beat. Yeah, what is a beat? Yes.

[00:10:39] What is a beat? A beat is basically, in a lemma, if you listen to music, a beat is instrumental without the voice, without the singing voice on it. If you listen to any song, there's always the singing voice which has the lyrics on it. While a beat is the harmony of the song and also redeem how it sounds. So I'm always like creating that for artists.

[00:11:08] I don't know if you understand. Yeah, so when you say you upload it to YouTube, because we're going to get all your links and everything. Yes, yeah. When you say you upload it to YouTube, what does that mean? Who would go to that, your YouTube, and consume the beat? Is there other artists that would do it? Or just people? Yes. Yes. So the way it works in music is that there's a lot of time whereby artists will want to, maybe artists, actually artists that are starting out, they don't necessarily have the funds

[00:11:37] to always pay a producer to make their own beat. So what they used to learn is that their favorite artists, let's say for instance, the video now is your favorite artist or Two-Face. I don't know if Two-Face or... I'm an Afrobeat fan. Yeah, yeah. So when they make music, probably you like the way they sound on that beat and you want to try to see if you can do that too. So the easiest thing they usually used to do is to get that beat. And what they do is that they search the beat

[00:12:06] on the internet. They can search, okay, the video, if, instrumental. You get, once they search the video, if, instrumental, then the producers that have make that type of beat, your beat will pop out through the search engine. Then when your beats pop out, they get to record the leads. So, that's how it works. So that's why some, I have to say, that's why some music, some music will sound unique and they'll go viral

[00:12:36] and people like Asha Ke, they sound original. But then some other music will sound like copy of, do you see what I'm saying? Do you think it's the beat? Yes. They will sound almost like the original artist, but just different kind of music. So, you can see that it's, it might work, it might go viral, it might not go viral. Is that, so do you think that, so the beats are, they're going for those beats and putting their own songs on it for familiarity. People that have found that we do might just like that music as well. Is it something like that?

[00:13:06] Yeah, yes, it's something close to that, but not really. Because what I mean by, if I'm talking about remake, because there's something called cover, cover songs in music. So cover song is, if I should sing exactly what David Do is singing, even including the lyrics, but I'm using my own voice, that means you are making a cover. While there are some other artists that will listen to that particular David Do song, they don't necessarily want to create everything alike, but they just want to get

[00:13:35] inspiration from it. Maybe how the drum is sounding, because the song is a hit song, so then they want to replicate something like that, but they want to also their source. So it's so different in beats like music. In fact, generally, creativity acts, we tend to get inspiration from other people and add what we have in us. Yeah. So for, yeah, for the, for stuff like cover, if I'm talking about cover, is remake, for instance, you have to copy the beat exactly,

[00:14:05] then some persons might sing their own original lyrics to the song or their own original melody to that beat, while other people might tend to sing everything alike. So my job was, I was doing everything, I was, sometimes I would produce my original beats, but because of the video, any big artist, sometimes I make even just a biba, if they are dropping a song around 12 a.m., trust me, before 12, 10, I've already uploaded my song, my beats.

[00:14:36] So what happened is that once you finish, from the, that's a, wow. Yes. So once you finish listening to that, the videos original, my beats will come up next because such engine, I've already had a way of recommending because what I used to use, the title, for instance, now I remake the video if now, on my beats now, the title is going to be the video if, and I now perform to remake instrumental. So if you just search the video if, you will see my own, out of one million people, 20 people,

[00:15:06] 20 people might decide to just, okay, let me listen to what this guy is doing. So that was what I was doing. So I had a lot of, I was like getting, I was famous among the underground artist community, both in Nigerian, as long as you are serious about music. So I was having a lot of people. That was even how I was able to leave Abuja and even move to Lagos. Because when I came to Lagos, I was working for a record level because of that. So that's how I started. Yeah. I'm so impressed.

[00:15:36] I love this. It's really because the funny question is that because I work, I'm an author. That's true. What you're saying, even though the publishing world is completely different and very traditional, we have different kind of publishing. It's very traditional. It's still the same kind of creative process that goes on. Like when you're talking about beats and this and instrumentalists and everything. In writing, I'm a writer, we talk about craft of writing, improving your writing, but at the same time you are going there and understanding

[00:16:06] what other well-known artists are doing, what are they doing, what, you know, so it's very exciting. Creativity is exciting. Thank you. Did you ever want to be a musician at all or you've always wanted to be at the back end producing and doing all the other things? Yes. I'm curious. Yes, I think, because my name is Melody, I've read your parents and that's my only name. So right from when I was small and because of Destiny Kids, I don't know if you're

[00:16:36] Destiny Kids, there are these popular children artists then that are singing Melody, Melody, Melody. Oh, Melody in my heart. Because of that, I was very delusional. I just felt that, okay, I'm supposed to do music because obviously my name is Melody. So I wanted to be, I wanted to sing. I think the first day I went to join our church choir, I tried to sing and when they gave me the mic to just do attention, I lost my voice because I don't want them to laugh at me because my voice

[00:17:05] is so tiny so I feel like I'm like, so after I tried to sing, I noticed that I'm not comfortable with hearing my voice. I don't know why it was like that. So I now, I started developing ears for sound. Even when I'm listening to music, even right now, if I'm listening to any song, before I will catch what the actors are saying, I'm already paying attention to the beats, what they are playing. That's how it works in my mind. So I just thought that, okay, this music team, I'm just going to

[00:17:35] work as a producer because since I already have interest, I like instruments. instruments. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Then I started to just... Front end and back end. You want to work with the... You want to tinkle with the way the thing works. So I started to... Yeah. You want to say something? It's finished and I'll ask you. So I started to just be a producer. So as I was explaining, I was working with this artist that was very close to me. In fact, we still work right now. So I was helping him produce.

[00:18:05] Then his songs went very viral. We were getting shows all over Nigeria. And since I'm his producer, he's like my artist says I have to step in as his manager. So I started managing him so that we were able to open a management company called The Heavily Wave. So what was The Heavily Wave? We helped artists with artist development, artist branding, music marketing, and music distribution. So our music distribution was basically for our own artists

[00:18:33] that are under our roster as their management company. Right? Then I noticed that it seems that we're doing a lot. In 2023, I wanted to travel abroad because I was just tired of making beats. I thought I felt very broke. And I was not having this creative juice to always make beats because artists want hate songs. And me, I'm the kind of person that I'm concerned about the art. Sometimes I'm not just, I don't just want to do beats. I just want to make great how I feel.

[00:19:02] It might not be something that is trending right now. I might get inspiration from something that is on the 90s. I like the way this particular sound and I would like to create something like that. It's a development, you know? Yes. But artists, these early Nigerian, most upcoming Nigerian artists, they want something that is trending. So I was just tired of making something like that. Then I wanted to travel, I think I wanted to travel to Dublin. Then I got a job to work as a caregiver

[00:19:32] in Dublin. Then I was now, yeah, I was now thinking about it. I was now very depressed because deep down within me, I didn't just want to travel because I wanted to travel because I wanted to survive. I don't want to leave Nigeria. For along the line, I was watching a lot of videos on YouTube. I was watching, I don't know if Wanda Maya, some, yeah, some of these. Wanda Maya? Wanda Maya? Yes. Yes, yes. So I was watching them, I was hearing stories of people coming from overseas, from diaspora,

[00:20:01] coming back to Africa. Some people are doing resorts, some people are building tech companies. And then you want to leave to go and live. I want to leave. You are already in the foundation. Yes. So it's mentoring. You know what it's like is mentoring. Mentoring somebody who would have said, oh my boy, you're on the right path, let me help you. You understand what it is? Yes. So I wanted to, I don't know the idea. I said, why would I want to leave? Like when people are coming?

[00:20:30] And I started thinking, okay, what would I do? You understand? And I look at myself because even before building Sundays, I've had different ideas. Sometimes I'll have ideas, but I don't know how to start. Before I knew, I would see one company. Even this one time I had an idea of a marketplace that if you are looking for influencers, because I work with so many micro influencers, and I noticed that a lot of micro influencers they don't mind to, okay, I say my medal, and they don't mind to be, I will have,

[00:21:00] I will have ideas of making something and then, so I have this idea of creating a content platform that's me just, while running my management company and music marketing. You got frozen, you had an idea of creating a content and we edited it out. Yes. So I had an idea of creating a content platform that can connect both. Who is this? Yeah.

[00:21:30] So I was saying, I have, sometimes I will get, because I'm very, I think I'm very innovative. So I was running the music management company and we were doing marketing. Most times when we get, artists will release their music, they will need people to use their music for videos like that. And it was very hard to get them. So what I was thinking is that, okay,

[00:21:51] if you can connect 10,000, 10,000, we have some people in Nigeria that are working in all these Brooklyn outside that are not even getting paid up to 10,000. So it was, yeah, it was, I thought that, okay, I will be able to do this. But at the end of the day, I didn't do it. Before I knew, I was starting to see people starting launching different platforms

[00:22:21] that are similar to that idea. So when I had the idea of song design, I wanted to move out. Then one, one spirit in me was not telling that she just niched down. You understand? I got that was, I'm always, yes. Yeah, because I'm always watching videos from different people. And I just thought, okay, instead of doing music marketing, it seems very too much. I'm not the only one. I should just have an identity. And since I have a lot of artists that were having this issue, then I was able

[00:22:51] to understand how to solve a problem and make money from it. You understand? So I had having the ideas, even from my own personal issues of having to deal with a lot of international distribution platform. At the end of the day, the artists are not getting paid. In 2024, a loan, Sub-Sahara Africa made over $100 million and just 2%. Yes, and just 2% in music revenue and just 2% of that return back to the continent.

[00:23:21] This is because... Why? 2%? What? 2%? 100 million? Yeah. Yeah, so if you're talking about this money, it's not just like the superstars like whiskey, DVD that make... No, no, no. We have that in publishing as well. We have something like some of this. We have it in distribution called Draft2Digital. You upload all your... Books. The manuscript on there, they will distribute it, they get the money, they take their 10%

[00:23:51] and give you the rest of the money. So it's not... That's why I say it's similar to publishing. Yes. Especially when it's about self-publishing. Why is it like that? It's because the infrastructure is broken and there is not a lot of knowledge on how things are run because it's not just like the A-list that are making music and making money like for somebody that... Yeah, for somebody that like me that lose 30% of $1,000. Imagine there are a lot of people like that. Yeah.

[00:24:20] So because of... Yeah. Because of that, I have to like... I thought that there's enough reason for us to build Song This. So that's the reason why we decided okay, we are going to build this platform and make it very easy for people to join. We are going to make it very... Just thought that okay, since artists are able to use Instagram, they're able to use YouTube, then they should be able to use SongDiz like a platform that is more user-friendly, something not complicated,

[00:24:50] they're more like social media. The operation, the more that is something that you can just... If you just lay your hands on it, you can find your way on it, it's also not very hard. Then we decided to build SongDiz, it's a short form of song distribution, right? There's SongDiz, Song Distribution. We decided to build SongDiz to make it very easy for artists to join, very easy for them to pop, to distribute their song, very easy for them to also receive their payments. Original,

[00:25:19] normal distribution platform, most of them, if you want to receive payments, you wait for this, but you can... Because Africa now, for people like Ghana, most of the normal, let's say, the normal independent artists are not A-list. They use Momo as Momo payment. That's their method of transaction. They don't use bank transfer. So we decided to make each region in Africa to be able to pay conveniently to join. For countries

[00:25:48] like Nigeria, not everybody is convenient to even put their Nigerian card details on any web platform because most of them might feel like a scam. Yes. So on our platform, we can decide to transfer, even just normal bank transfer without putting your card or USDD. Can you use code? Because some of them, they might not be using a very, very slow. I'm sure some of my questions ask that, but we have a whole load of questions that I told you that normally I don't even

[00:26:18] go through all those questions. Yeah. So that's the story. That's my story. That's the story of some of this. So let me, so me, because I come from a technical background, I need to understand you are a music producer, but you've now created this platform. So how did you scale from being a music producer? How did you transition? What was the word? How did you transition? What was the transition between from music producer

[00:26:46] to creating this platform? How did you start it? Who were the members? Number one, you have to look at firms. Number two, you have to look at engineers. You have to look at engineers that will build the platform for you. Are they based in Nigeria? Are they based in India? I've got, like I told you, I've got a very strong technology background. Break it down for me, please. How you did it. Okay, okay, okay. As much as you want to share. Okay, okay, okay. Thank you so much. So how I was able to do that is

[00:27:16] because I just started. First of all, I understand the problem. So I am, again, while I, when I moved to Lagos earlier on, I was working in a record label. I was working with them as a producer there. There's one of the staff that we were leaving, we were staying in the same room. He was like the cleaner in the record label and I was working as a producer, but because of accommodation, we have to stay together. So he was using my laptop to learn coding

[00:27:45] whenever I'm not, like, yes, whenever I'm not producing. Then after I stopped working there four years later, that same cleaner started building, he left the record label so I started building many platforms for FinTech. He's, yes, that's the same guy that turns out to be my co-founder and CTO. His name is Robert Ogil. So when I had the idea, I said, bro, let's build this thing. I was like, oh, okay, now let's do it. And I was watching Y Combinator. I understand

[00:28:14] the importance of having a co-founder that has another domain and test practice. Yes. So I knew that, okay, I had the idea. I need somebody to be able to put it. And I don't have, I don't have money to, even though I try to pay some certain people before, but because of the billing I would run. So this is my co-founder that is also my friend. I told him about it and was like, okay, even though he was like, okay, something like that. I told him, okay, this is, I knew already

[00:28:44] how to make it work, but I didn't know how to like build it technically. So I told him about the idea. He buy into it and was like, okay, let's do this. But that was how we were able to build the platform because based on funding, when I started, in fact, all of my friends, I'll be like, I have this idea, are you interested to join? I will give you equity. So I was saying that and I had a lot of people join at the beginning, but when we were growing,

[00:29:14] challenges comes because they were not getting paid, some of them left, some stuff like that. So yeah, so we bootstrapped. That was the experience of the founder. Yeah, we started making, I think even before we launched our MVP, we started making, people have had pain to join already before, yes, before we launched. because if anybody, because I remember I told you that people were mixing me to use other platforms to distribute for them. Yeah. One question, let me just explain MVP to people

[00:29:44] before because they don't know. So minimum viable product is the very basic, so if you're building anything, the basic one that will function. So it might not be pretty, it might not, but it will function. So that's the minimum. Then a founder who has built a platform or whatever it is, even if it's a software, they will now start building on top of that and improving it. So minimum of that, so MVP, if you hear MVP, it's minimum viable product. Go on then. Yes. Yeah, so from the revenue

[00:30:13] that we're getting from the subscription, we're able to return it back to the business. So we're able to like start paying for store of domain and also because of my experience in music, because I'm also like a music executive, I work with smaller record labels, I help direct them because I have like huge experience and knowledge in music business. I went to a music business academic, it's a school in an academy in Nigeria where they teach

[00:30:42] people how the music business works in Africa and globally. So I went to that school, I have experience, so a lot of artists were like reaching out to me, how far I would like to do this thing. So I was like taking fees from all of that, so that's money we're like putting in back to the startup. That was how we were able to build to this stage. That's fantastic. So you now build a platform, people have been hearing about you, people had already started paying. Okay, so there's a, so people have to pay a fee to go get on the platform.

[00:31:12] Yeah? Yeah. So what happens to you, so when you collect, whatever it is, royalty you collect, how does that system work? How does the payment part of it, it's automated? How does that work? So that will build some kind of trust. People have to be automated, yeah. Yes, yes. So on the platform, we have, because we understand that there are different levels of artists. We have artists that are just starting out today, they just make decisions. Let's say, for instance, I just want to, I just want to distribute

[00:31:42] my music, I just want my music to be out on all platforms so I can tell my friends to be able to, they're not necessarily serious about the music, they just want to, like, have something out there. Then we have a plan called Stata, that's, because we're making it out like $2 a month, so with that, you can distribute your song. Then we have another called Groot, that's like $7 a month. Yes, yes. And the last one is high priority. So this one, you don't necessarily have to pay.

[00:32:11] There's some artists that we, based on the details we have, because we have a lot of artists using our platform already. So we can be able to see that, okay, this person is doing, is already making some sort of realities. Okay, you don't need to pay to join the platform again, you don't need to renew your subscription. Now we are going to give you label services, we are going to market you, like, we record labels are doing. We are going to promote you, brand you, market you, then we take a commission from your realities. So why it works

[00:32:40] is that once we get the realities, it's available on the artist dashboard, then anytime, any day, even if it's 2 a.m. in the night, they want to withdraw their realities, they can just click withdraw and get it instantly. What we've done is that we've integrated our system to the African financial system for stuff like P-Stack. So because... Is there an API integration? Yes, it is. So once we get these realities,

[00:33:11] we just make it available on our own. Each artist we send directly to their artists for payouts, then it's available on their wallet anytime, any day, they want to withdraw by any means, any currency. So for instance, another way is that if they want to withdraw, let's say for instance, they want to withdraw $1,000 and we are in Nigeria because me, myself, when I was in, when I was doing music production and distribution for artists, whenever we collect these realities, we tend to look for, I don't know

[00:33:40] if you remember, Aboki, this would have to change dollars to nera or nera to dollar. We call them Aboki in Nigeria. So sometimes we want to do something in the United and you have to go to the Aboki side in the morning to change that. So what we've done is that you can exchange your currency as your realities from the US dollars to your local currency without any need. So if you have your realities, you can get it in your currency so you don't need to stress to look for any unnecessary Aboki

[00:34:09] with huge exchange rates. Understand? So make it very simple. Just one simple click. You get it instantly. That's fantastic. So just another curiosity before we move on. So we're talking about your platform now and we know that platforms have to be robust and maybe that's not your forte, that might be your partner's forte, the technical part of things. So how are you able to build? Because if that platform is not robust, then it will start

[00:34:39] failing or start getting over, you understand what I'm saying, start crashing. Yeah. So what kind of platform did you build? How were you able to make that platform robust enough for it not to crash for anything like that? Okay. Yeah. No, I told you I've watched, in fact, I've watched all the videos on Y Combinator. I don't know if Y Combinator. No Y Combinator. Yeah. Yes, yes. I think even this early spring application, we applied for it.

[00:35:08] So I've heard, I have some sort of how to build a startup knowledge from my research on YouTube. So the first thing we did is that since I have a technical founder that is very experienced in building stuff that are scalable, currently now we have AWS as our partners. So our infrastructure is like very strong and we have them every now and then some of their technical team, they come to just check. They even give us

[00:35:37] up to $5,000 credit because of how $5,000 in credit because of how they believe on our platform. So another thing is that we also have a partnership with Symphonic. Symphonic is a global industry distribution platform but they don't necessarily focus on African artists like they are more of like global standards. So their system is set up in a kind of way that okay, you still have to have dollar card and so because of that global they can't just

[00:36:06] because even when I was discussing with them, they should do we're not able to do that. So we're like, okay, can you give us some kind of access to your system? Then we build our own infrastructure. We just need looking for some platforms that will not be able to because we don't just distribute to just Spotify. We have some African streaming platforms that are rising. So we want to connect with you. So they are like our friends. We're able to like, okay, do some of their infrastructure to

[00:36:35] connect with ours. So that's how we've been able to make our system strong. That's fantastic. You definitely know your stuff. Yes, and also we have another partnership, not just from the technical style. That's what we've done. So we have advisors. For instance, we have a pocket lawyer, pocket lawyer like a legal firm. So we don't just want something that can, because I think this is something you just said now. I met somebody in a conference.

[00:37:03] He said that if we can be able to build this and it doesn't break, this is something that can last for a generation. So because of that mindset, we have to settle down on making the infrastructure work, not just contain just 10 people. So it's something that will work and we'll be able to serve these people. So we're both from the legal side. We have our legal advisors. We also have our partnership. We have a partnership with Stanley Bank. I don't know if Stanley Bank. So yeah, we're

[00:37:33] using them at first to collect payment and also pay access. Yeah. Okay. So every time you talk, there's always a question that comes to you. So now I'm going to, I've completely abandoned my questions there for now. What to ask about your business? Partnerships with outside? Because now you've talked about what you've done is quite impressive. Yeah. And there's an idea that I'm going to be asking because I'm doing a solo episode that's going to round

[00:38:03] up technology and the perception of technology in the West and in emerging worlds, right? Yeah. How have you been able to partner, not partner, but obviously your integration is with all these multiple platforms with Spotify and all the distribution platforms. How have they been able to do that? Is it just pure technology integration or

[00:38:32] do you have to go through some certain steps talking to people because this trust issue, especially when it comes to the problem when you're trying to do partnership with the West? Okay. Yes. Yes. So, yes, I was able to do that. If you should go to my LinkedIn, I basically post a lot about my field. That's what I do. And even before now, I have

[00:39:02] experience in the music business. I've produced for a lot of people and also have distributed for a lot of people. So I already have catalog already. You understand? They've checked, they've confirmed that, okay, they've checked that, okay, this person is actively on this street and you cannot just come empty like that. You understand? You have to show them something. So I was like, okay, we're able to gather this catalog up to 800 sums here. But we want to scale up to understand this is what we have. And because they knew that, okay, this is something big.

[00:39:32] And obviously Africa is very big. It's a green market. The youngest, they were, yeah. So because of that, they're able to trust us and work with us. So they know they can make money. Obviously. It's all about making money, isn't it? Yes, yes. It didn't make money. Yeah, so how do you get your, how do you ensure that you are the cutting edge? Meaning that if there's any platform that emerges for music, that song disc is

[00:40:01] always, you know, you always be able to get more partnership, you know, all the distribution for you. that's why is that it's very simple, sure. We just stay close to our users in the sense that we think, okay, so earlier this year, about four months ago, we had an event, we called it Creative Unpack. So Creative Unpack is an event whereby artists, producers, music executives, we gather them in

[00:40:31] the same room and then we educate them on music business, we educate them on how to make money, we also spotlight some of these artists to perform. We have some artists that in fact, there's one lady that performed there, she has not performed anywhere in her life and immediately she finished performing and started crying like, thank you, this is my first time performing. Someone that has not seen his brother for more than four years, they were able to meet in that event. So how we've been able to do that, we are just like close

[00:41:00] to our users, which other platforms, so because obviously they are global, they have the bigger voice that they are tending to. So what we are doing is that we want, we don't just want songs, this should not be a platform that will just come and go, we want to stay close with people. So what we are doing is that we are educating them, we are meeting them, we are inviting them for events, we are giving them opportunities in the music industry, we are showing support in any way we can. Community. Yes, exactly.

[00:41:31] Community. You are making human connections, it's not just technology. Yes, that's fantastic, that's good. So another question that just popped to my mind is, you have the music industry that is very competitive, production, people that have made it, people that are, and there is a kind of cutthroat aspect to that, to music that I have heard about. how have you been able to, because I know that you are not as, because you are in the technology

[00:42:00] part, but at some point there is a kind of spillover, isn't it? How have you been able to manage with those people that are already there? How have you been able to manage those relationships? Or are you able to work separately from them? Or are you looking at partnerships from them? People that have been there who are the godfathers of the... Okay, yeah, I understand. In Africa, in Africa, there are not much platforms like us. I think they are not even out to 10 in Africa, yeah.

[00:42:30] But if you're talking about record labels, because there's difference between record label and distribution company. Every record label, they need a distribution platform. In the past, when there is no streaming platform, record label used distributions to sell their CDs and all of that. So for us, how have we been able to... Because number one, on our platform, if any record label should sign you, they keep ownership of your song. Even after you leave, they still retain ownership

[00:42:59] of it and also they retain excessive control. They might tell you that, okay, I want you to sing like this, I want you to sing like this is what it's selling. But for us, you retain ownership and control over your work. So you can decide to work with us today and the next time you're dropping your song, you don't want to drop it through us. So we are giving the artists independency and we don't own any of your work. We just take commission from your realities and also from your subscription.

[00:43:28] So because of that, the artists want control. They don't want to tell them exactly how they want their arts to be. And these days, most artists are scared of record labels because they might end up signing record label and after two years start having issues. So some artists just want to stay independent and grind their way to the top. So I think because of that alone, because we are giving artists control over their work

[00:43:56] and also ownership over their work, you distribute the total unnecessary means we own your work. It belongs to you, but for record label, once they invest in you, they own you, even if you should leave the record label, obviously most record labels are like that, they tend to retain ownership of that song because it's part of their assets. But for us, yes, for us, you are just giving us the permission to be able to exploit it for you. But anytime you want to probably

[00:44:26] leave, we can do that without any struggles. But for us, we want our clients to stay with us for a very long time. So that's why we are trying to make sure that, okay, whatever we promise these artists, we are giving the word we promise to retain them. I don't know if I believe to answer your question. You're giving them a chance as well. You're actually giving them a chance. You get what they have with the chance because like you said, record labels, maybe they're looking for the next superstar.

[00:44:56] And it's very difficult to even predict who the next superstar will be. You might take an artist that shows problems from the beginning and they might not necessarily scale up. Yes. So even between now and then, record labels come to us like, okay, I'm looking for this artist to sign. Because our platform is open to all. So we can be able to support. For instance, now we have this guy, his name is DJ Shaolin. He has more than, I think he has more than, if I'm not mistaken, more than 600

[00:45:26] million views on TikTok alone. And this is person that's not, he's inside streets. 600 million views? How? Where is he from? He's, he's, he's, he's, he's not even signed. He's normal TikTok, the world is global. Yeah, if people like to, you blow. Yes, yes, that's it. So he's always making all this funny, you know, about this Mara dance, this, I don't know if you know if you have said it's really that. Yes. So he has lots of, he has lots of

[00:45:56] numbers on his, and not just him, you're seeing different people. Somebody might just do a video today and just post on TikTok and it should go viral and see this music. You cannot tell people what they want. So people might just like what they, and they decide, they don't necessarily want to know if you are signed or not. So because we have that data, record label can come to us, we can be able to point, okay, this person is going, this person has two songs that he has done that we have seen, we feel like, okay, if we should invest money in him, if we invest more, you

[00:46:25] will get, if the artist is open to that, then he can't sign. So we are working with both the artists and both record label. We are not working against them, but we are working with them. You're in a very sweet spot. You're in a very sweet spot. So let me now come and look at the question that I put here, because I want to look at, we talked about payment system and you already talked about the way payment system are not favorable to, I don't, for me, I don't seem,

[00:46:55] if somebody is taking 30% of payments from your payments, because you are not one of the people that has signed whatever treaty or tax treaty, that is bad. And taking it from Africa, so you are not taking it from the developed world, you're taking it from an emerging nations. This is what I'm saying, who every penny, that is a broke, that is bad. Yes, actually very bad. It doesn't sound good at all. So I might probably do an episode on payments, just payment, just trying to

[00:47:25] understand what it means. And even this problem, when I posted about it on LinkedIn, that was even one of the way I was able to get some of our partners, because most of these people, I don't know if they don't know, some of them know, but it's like the government, the way their government policies stand over there, so it's messy for us. So that's why we have to step in and build our own custom solution. Even as they said, okay, after they take this 30%, because after I've done so

[00:47:55] many research, they were like, okay, you can apply for tax refund, but how many artists in Africa will be able to apply? You don't go see that I mean, I don't even understand, because for example, like I have things that I do, my own projects that I do with my writing, and I fill out a tax, I fill out tax from Amazon and all those ones, and because I'm a non-resident of the US, I need to fill out the tax form to say I'm a non-resident of the US, so I will not be taxed, the US will not tax me, my own country, the UK

[00:48:25] will tax me, that's fine, you understand where you're coming from, but for you to now say, oh, you're non-resident, we're taking 30%, not even 10%, we're taking 30% from POSGRI, I cannot avoid it, I can't understand, so I've got to do some exploration of that and understand that more, so let me see what else I want to ask, while we're there, let me ask you a question about the future, yeah, because we'll talk for a

[00:48:55] bit now, let me ask you a question about the future, because we know that especially Nigeria, the young population in Nigeria has treated the older population now, so at some point, Nigeria is going to have the youngest population in the world and people like you, you guys are going to just make things explode, make things fantastic, so when people look at technology like AI, for example, AI technology, from where I am now in the West, there's a

[00:49:24] caution around AI technology, there's use cases that people are using it for different things now, but there's a lot of caution around it, there's a lot of ethics around it, but when I look at Africa and I look at other emerging nations, I see the adoption, I see people wanting to adopt it and use it to scale up, so it's two different perceptions, and people like feel that, oh, maybe places like Africa might be left behind, for me, from when I spoke to the,

[00:49:54] funnily enough, the co-creator of Shazam was one of the people that I interviewed, and we had that discussion, and I said, the way I'm looking at it, it's like a bootstrap, Africa, places like Africa will bootstrap the technology, even with all the infrastructure, all the issues that they have, they will bootstrap things and they will scale up, so they're probably not going to explode the way things will explode in the West, it will be a different way, but they will get there.

[00:50:24] There's that, the fact that I feel that Africa is doing well-placed, but we're not the origins, sometimes we're not the origin of that technology, so for example, what you're doing at the moment, you're doing it on AWS, Amazon, you're doing it on what already exists, so there are two fun questions I have, one question is how you see the future in terms of what you

[00:50:53] think can happen in Africa, answer, question two is do you think we'd ever come to a point where we start that ground level, so we depend, completely rely on ourselves, so we have our own AWS, we have our own Spotify, we have our own, we're not a client on somebody else, Azure, all those people, we're not relying on that, I know most technology companies partner with them, but I want us to have our

[00:51:23] own Africa AWS, so question one is seeing the future, let's start with question one, which is how do you see the future for Africa in terms of the technology we have, yeah, the technology we have, bypassing some of the problems we have, because if we sit down and talk about infrastructure, we start talking about politics and governments, bypassing that how, how do we get up? yes, I think it has to do with

[00:51:53] strong resilience and also because for me, I attend a lot of tech conferences, Lagos, so because of that, I've been able to see a lot of things that young people are building, so for stuff like, I think I have somebody that is building something like AWS in Lagos, that doesn't necessarily have strong funding, but they are doing it already, you understand, so, I don't think it's even far anymore, understand, it just takes a bit of time

[00:52:22] because from what's happening already, people are already building some of these things already, some people are building their own servers, some people are trying to build their own data center, it's happening already, if there is, I think it's growing, it's just that it's growing gradually, it should just take like little time and government to, I know you said you should not mention government, but I think government has to do, yes, government has to do a lot because right now there is a lot of empowerment, a lot of,

[00:52:52] because every African, okay, yeah, there's a lot of empowerment going, so I feel like it's not something that is impossible, it is just, it is happening already, but we just need a little bit of maybe push from our government, let's say for instance, we have some of these platforms already, for instance, you want to say Spotify, I know Justplay, Justplay is a streaming platform owned by Nigerian, and they are doing well, like Justplay, they are from Just,

[00:53:22] I don't know if you know Just has a platform, so yeah, some of these platforms are existing, it does take time for the people to adapt, just need that, the government just need to support, like if you go to places like China, they don't use WhatsApp, they use WeChat, because it's, so it takes like government has to add some policy, maybe there's going to be some limitation from all these foreign platforms, but that will like enable our look because the idea already, trust me, Nigerians like to build, and even in challenges, that's when you see great

[00:53:52] innovators, like they are building math stuff, but just that, we just need, yes, we just need, okay, our people to be proud of us, even when, when we said building some of this, we had issues like that, many people might want to sell, this platform are you trusted, the government doesn't need to like empower the people building this infrastructure and please them, I know it's possible, we are doing it already, like people that, people are building servers for Africa, people are building where

[00:54:22] you can buy domain that belongs to, okay, let's see for a reason, there's one time, I think there's one time AWS was down when a lot of companies was having, a lot of companies even in Nigeria and they're having issues but those people that are building African, African, infrastructure are owned by us, they were able to like, ah, our own ours is active, we can, because of that some people are switching to that, so it's just going to take time, boy, to definitely work. And government support. Yeah, government

[00:54:52] support. And with some of this, for example, now, is it, so it's, is it all over the world or is it just Africa, where is it now, are you local? So I just want to, yeah, yeah, so this is, because whenever I say we have African artists, most people usually used to think it's just for people that are living in Africa. Some of this is, some of this is for Africans, even for Africans living globally. we are addressing the issues of Africans living in Africa, but also, what we've

[00:55:22] noticed is that for instance, we have some clients in Australia, we have some clients in the UK, in the US, that are probably Nigerians, other Africans that have migrated there, but they still want to trust their music, or they feel like, okay, this Afrobeat I'm singing, I feel like it's an African music distribution platform that can carry this song, they carry my matter for air. So, yeah, so we are building for Africans living anywhere that want to distribute their music globally.

[00:55:52] Yeah, we've seen different people, even some people, like, where we started, we wanted to just build for Africans, like just Nigerians and Sub-Saharan Africa, but we get music from people with different parts of the world, who want to pay Brazil, I want to pay for this, how can I pay? So, we noticed that, okay, there are Africans also, like how Afrobeat was able to be exported globally, we have people in the UK that are enjoying Afrobeat, or that still like jollof rice. Songdis is going

[00:56:22] to be that platform that even if you're an African living even in space, you still want to use Songdis to distribute because there is that cultural understanding. On our platform, we have some people that don't necessarily understand English, local artists, somebody called from Inugu State, a person that doesn't necessarily understand English, but they want to get their music out there. We have our team member that understand Ibu, that are able to understand what that person wants and able to, so, yeah, we are not just building

[00:56:51] for just people living in Africa, we're building for Africans living globally, we're helping them get that music everywhere, globally, yeah. That's fantastic. Thank you. I wanted to ask the question around, the question was playing around my mind and then it just flew away. But I think I wanted to ask, yes, I know what I wanted to ask about your funding. So how did you get about because you got an MBA

[00:57:19] accelerator funding. Can you explain more about that and what is the future for you? What are your vision for getting more funding and scaling up? Yes, okay, let me start with how we got into MBA. Ever since when we had building some of these, my CTO, which is my co-founder, because obviously we started with a lot of people because anybody I don't meet that are from intelligent and I don't say if I come and join us, we give money, end up

[00:57:49] living. So we knew that we needed funds. So my CTO always inquired that I should apply for all those things. So I was applying for grants, a lot of stuff like that, grants, receipt investment. And that was how I was able to some of them would be like, oh, we don't invest in music, we don't invest in music, because they feel like, okay, we are just another streaming platform, they feel like there is Spotify, Apple Music, why should they invest? But they did not understand that we are actually a music distribution platform. So when we

[00:58:19] applied to NBA, I didn't even know that they would choose us because I've applied to a lot. The day I applied for that application, I opened the application, I did not fill it because it was very long. If I should apply for this, we might not get it. The data was to open on my laptop and I applied for it. And by the grace of 12, they said 12 million people showed interest. 700 people end

[00:58:49] up, 700 people started applied. top 12 million picked up. They got us into mentorship for four months. did a lot of teaching for mentors, marketing, sales, business administration, stuff like that. Then from there, they're going to pick top 10. And that top 10 will be able to pitch for the demo day people

[00:59:22] from open AI, people from the government of Rwanda. So to God will be the glory they picked us among the 10 people that fly us to Kigali on the demo day we pitch and by the grace of the world we are among the top five we need top five startups and I think some of the prizes that were able to Kigali they provide work space for us and also they provide up to

[00:59:51] $70,000 in both markets research and also try to get us up so for us right now we are trying to focus on see how we can grow ourselves because for somebody like me and for some members of my team I would not say we understand what we are building but we are open for mentorship to understand

[01:00:21] where to go and also to raise funds we are still trying to raise our precede investment because all so far we just bootstrapped so we are still trying to see how we can get investors so we can scale our users from 1,200 to so many things how and then there's all these

[01:00:50] builds look at AI technology innovation by I don't know whether it's Google because I'm always looking to see what is going for emerging artists and most of the time these

[01:01:20] artists don't necessarily have artwork because cover the picture to attach to their album art so most of the time they end up generating album art from meta or and then they upload with their song but what we've noticed sometimes the image is not specific so what we've done is that we built our own AI we call it IO AI so

[01:01:50] what IO AI can help you when you are uploading if you don't have an artwork we can generate an artwork with just your imagination then our AI will be able to generate an album art for you and our AI can be able to generate because most artists independent emerging artists they don't know how to write their biography because they are PR people so they have to leave their biography empty because some of these

[01:02:20] platforms like Spotify you have can be able to share the ones that are not technical so you can ask

[01:02:49] how many streams do have in Lagos and tell you what you need to do to boost your partnership to AWS so

[01:03:19] we used we built in from AWS yeah so what I'm saying those specific AI tools like IO AI is that your partner that built that from scratch or did you know how it's because I'm not the technical guy but it's built by we're giving access to some part of access like an infrastructure so when you have to do you now know if you want to define it to

[01:03:49] kerosene or petrol or stuff like that it sounds like a GPT to me which is a gpt an automation that you build you give it what what

[01:04:20] be on top of other layers of AI so it's easy to them just be specific about what you want and you test it again and again and add more functionalities to vision for some of this what do you want to see how do you do because now you want

[01:04:50] brand sometimes brand and brand partnership would raise the profile of any business so because of the way you are now maybe you'll be having some partnership and at what we want some of this to be very simple we want some of this to be an

[01:05:19] operating system for every creative in Africa or every African creative so what we sell their ticket on some of this so we want to make it more like an all

[01:05:49] in one operating system where you attach to that whenever because most times when artists make a song and

[01:06:19] they want to send it there is fear of piracy so you can save your song yeah more of an operating system everything you want is there you can publish your music don't go anywhere yeah yeah i know you talked about i know you talked about you do you understand publishing so music has publishing to deal with just the lyrics there's another part of music industry it's called music publishing

[01:06:49] so it deals with the composers of the lyrics just the lyrics because in in the next five song this is going to be the go to platform for if you are seeing one to five for the longest run that is the nearest future that is after I'm gone because my plan our plan is to be able

[01:07:19] to like leave a legacy in the world before we leave and I feel like music is one of the that can leave us long very long we want to be able to preserve African music catalog and serve them for the longest time and if there are 10 African creatives 8 of them will be using song this or 8 of them have used any superstar global superstar they started with

[01:07:49] song this yes they worked with song this or something more of a go to when you are in Nigeria I believe you know how you used to see close up everywhere in every Africa there is one time I thought that all other toothpicks are called close up because how close up was so I also thought any toothpicks is close up so that is what song this would

[01:08:19] be like okay every African creative that wants to grow and wants to generate revenue want to yeah song this is going to be the go to platform for that and I believe you is that I think when you know music you already know the production of music you have very sound sound experience in the production of music music and you have gone out to start doing all your research around funding

[01:08:49] around what is out there around so you know your stuff if you know your stuff and then you understand about grassroots about growing slowly not scaling up having your MVP and scaling up from there I think my goodness I'm looking out for you thank you my one question around that is I think I asked and I did do a quick research do you have competitors out there that are doing what this is doing I'm not saying that means they were stripy or

[01:09:19] anything like that what does that mean okay okay you ask if we have competitors currently yes we have competitors currently in the global scale we have stuff like distro kid I don't know if we have and in Nigeria we have other distributors like we have DAPA or those ones mainly focus on certain independent artists that are already doing well yeah so we have competitors but

[01:09:48] essentially we are not very we are I will not say we are bothered we are not because like we have a roadmap to be that go to platform so we want people to grow with us the younger generations so yeah since there is competitors it means that we are on the right path so we have competitors but there are not many you are growing because one of the global brands that

[01:10:27] building building community because community builds loyalty if people are loyal to you they don't want to go elsewhere if you are looking after them they don't want to go elsewhere before we close I just want to say we hit up 1 billion streams yesterday across our catalog 1 billion streams 1 billion yes tomorrow tomorrow

[01:10:56] being 28th of December will be 1 year since we launched songs about a year thank you I'm so interested very interested I'm so pleased that you came under my radar that your team reached out and I'm happy that I did my due diligence and I been able to speak thank you so much where can people reach you where are the

[01:11:26] places they can find you okay if you want to work with us invest anything ask

[01:11:55] questions you can send me an email at melody songs melody at song this dot com yeah thank you I'm not finishing that just one question just popped into my mind that I should ask you so if there people young people that are wanting to develop as you developed now and in different industries not just music and all that what's your advice to what one advice I would say is that it's not

[01:12:25] impossible to do anything you can think of as long as you believe in that thing you can do it trust me when we said building song this what I know now I don't know it's like it's what I know now I don't know it's so you don't wait for it to because there's definitely going to be challenges like beyond what you've

[01:12:54] imagined it's not going to come easy but what is going to push you go forward is die or resign that spirit of not giving up that spirit is going to bring clarity it's going to bring support it's going to bring funding just make sure that you do not die yeah that's us and this one is for old and young because you can start at any age because we're in the digital world now where yes it's not easy but whatever age and whatever stage you're at

[01:13:24] you can always reinvent yourself just go and learn your stuff because Melody you have demonstrated that if you have domain knowledge of something and you want to scale up you have to do research you have done everything very impressive I'm looking forward to interviewing you some other time maybe a year from now we might be doing

[01:13:54] it way when are you coming this year or next year okay okay okay we won't have the workspace already so you are free to be yeah just look at that that's fantastic I'll reach out thank you so much to me and wish you the best

[01:14:24] luck and blessing for some thank you thank actually taking I think almost one hour more than one hour of your time to speak wow I was like before the interview I was like what am I going to see for one hour a month everything I don't follow because I

[01:15:29] Thank you. Have a nice day. And thank you. So that was Melody Nehemiah of Song This. So impressive. I am so blown away by this. I'm so excited because I absolutely love music. I love listening to music. I sing a little bit, not into one greater, but I sing a little bit. But I love music, especially African music.

[01:15:59] I listen to jazz. I listen to different 80s music, 80s beats, you know, from the 80s, music from the 80s, R&B. Afrobeat for some reason has a kind of, I don't know, I've got a kind of love for Afrobeat. I can sit down when I'm writing and I write to Afrobeat and I'm excited about it.

[01:16:22] And what Songdees is doing, creating a channel for those who are coming. There will be a lot of like, they're not going out there to filter. So everybody has a chance. And those ones that resonate out there will do well. And those who are starting out will have a chance. So there's no gatekeeping. There's no, there's no other sense of, oh, somebody is gatekeeping and trying to choose who is good or who is not good.

[01:16:52] But you have the chance out there to be judged. Not judged in a per se, but to be listened to by those out there. And you might even have your. So this is what excites me about the podcast, about Talking Tech with Creatives. The last interview, one interview that I had was with a film producer who is out in Africa producing. You're probably, you would have watched it. If you watched that, you'd have watched it before this podcast. And doing it independently and getting funding.

[01:17:19] Producing Afro, not Afrofeature, but I'm going to try and remember now. Not sci-fi, but I'll remember. Not speculative. Producing speculative African films. And doing it under its own steam. And developing its own community. And that's what is exciting for me. Having that, the chance to be able to be grassroots. And be in a space where it's not necessarily for everybody. It's not popular. It's not mass. But there are people that are interested in it.

[01:17:49] So that's what this is all about. It's catching those people. Not letting them fall between the cracks. So I hope that you continue. What I ask is subscribe, follow, whatever to support the podcast in any way. I'm going to be having a Patreon. And look out for that. I'll be launching it for those that want extra on top of what I'm already doing. But I'm not going to stop this. I'm going to continue.

[01:18:18] Because it's just exciting to see what is out there. If you don't start something, how are you going to know what is out there? When I started, I was like, oh, there's a lot of people doing podcasts on technology already. There's a lot of people doing podcasts on culture. But that intersection is important because culture and art and creativity, they cannot function now without technology.

[01:18:44] And technology itself has to recognize that the creative sector, they need the creative sector. So it's not exploiting the creative sector. It's to have a way that both work.

[01:18:56] And then when you look at imaginations, look at, and I'm going to explore that, where somewhere like, where obviously Nigeria or somewhere in Africa, that when an artist is paid $1,000, 30% of that goes to a tax system. And I don't know whether that tax system, I don't know which country I need to check. Why? What? I'll be speaking to an expert.

[01:19:23] But I'll be bringing an expert onto the podcast to come and talk about that, especially. What are the regulations around developed nations and emerging nations regarding payments? So if you are creating something in the emerging world where $1,000 will go a long way. Why are you taking 30%? If I develop the same thing in the UK, you know that the UK will tax me. They will tax me because it's my home country.

[01:19:51] So you will not tax me in that other country because I fill out a tax form to say, I'm not resident in your country. So why are you taxing? Why is that tax system there? That's taking a lot. So yeah, this is very exciting for me. So I'll be doing more exploration.

[01:20:09] So I'm going to be doing my solo episode as well to round off the year and to just do a speak on what I think in my own, what I think about what all of this is and what I've done so far looking at the people that I've spoken to. And to say a big thank you to everybody that have spoken to me in 2025 to make this podcast continue. So thank you.

[01:20:35] And yeah, have a nice day, morning, evening, afternoon, wherever you are in the world. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.