Exploring Augmented Reality and Storytelling with Bee Kapitan - ep 10

[00:00:18] Hi everyone, welcome to Talking Tech With Creatives Podcast. My name is Stella Oni, author, speaker, podcast host. If you've been listening to my podcast from the beginning, this is my 10th episode and I've been blown away. My favorite word, I say blown away a lot and I say amazing a lot by the response to this podcast. I'm really pleased about it because I'm quite passionate about technology.

[00:00:46] Because I've got a technology background and I'm passionate about storytelling. And I feel that every one of us out there is a creative of one way or the other, we're creatives, whichever industry you're in. So this is going to be a fantastic ride all along with this podcast.

[00:01:03] Now, this podcast appears on most audio platforms, podcast platforms, including Apple and Spotify. So remember to subscribe, to follow, to review. If you enjoyed it, go do your review because that would encourage me to keep going.

[00:01:23] Today, it's also going to be a great video. It's also going to be a great video. It's also going to appear on YouTube. And this is the 10th episode. So that means that by the time you've watched this, it's probably going to have been published on YouTube.

[00:01:35] That being the case, make sure that you go to YouTube and subscribe so that I will know and like. Like and subscribe and that will keep me going.

[00:01:46] Today, I'm going to be a great video.

[00:02:16] Tell us about yourself and what you do.

[00:02:21] What I do. Well, first, thank you so, so much about having me on your show and your podcast. I'm just really honored.

[00:02:33] So my name is B, B Capitan. And I think it'd be kind of interesting to let people know how we met.

[00:02:39] Yeah, because I think it's kind of fun to kind of like, how do you know this? How do you know each other?

[00:02:45] And I think that's a good story.

[00:02:48] It's a good way to be into it.

[00:02:50] What you doing, right? What's going on?

[00:02:53] So I had the pleasure of meeting Miss Stella in London. And I'm from Vancouver, Canada.

[00:03:02] And we were at the London Book Fair. And I believe it was in 2022? No, 23.

[00:03:12] Was it 23?

[00:03:13] Last year. And then we went this year. So it almost feels like this year is over.

[00:03:18] Are you sure we met the first time last year? I thought it was 22.

[00:03:21] Was it? I think I met you in 22. But then, I can't be sure, but it feels like I'm moving.

[00:03:31] COVID really messed up my timing. Everything I think, it's like, I still think everything's

[00:03:38] like two years from 20. I think we're still in 2022.

[00:03:40] And there you were sitting down, what were you doing, taking notes? And I was looking at

[00:03:45] you and thinking, what is she writing? And then we go talking. Go on then.

[00:03:50] And you told me.

[00:03:52] Oh, yeah. No, it was fantastic. First of all, Stella, you're a positive energy. So it's always

[00:03:59] great to sit next to somebody who is really interested in the same thing that you are and going to

[00:04:07] conferences and connecting with authors and finding about what's happening in the world of pretty

[00:04:12] much kind of a communication in a literary sense. And a lot of it's based on education, you know,

[00:04:20] and we've got the big players at the London Book Fair. No, I've attended.

[00:04:24] Big ones. Big ones.

[00:04:25] Yeah, it's a whole new world. And I guess, you know, I could share a little bit about why I started

[00:04:31] attending those conferences. And I think that'll kind of lead into my story of like, where I am right now

[00:04:37] a little bit. But was that your first London Book Fair?

[00:04:42] Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. That wasn't. I started attending London Book Fair since 2012.

[00:04:48] Wow.

[00:04:49] So there you go.

[00:04:49] Yeah, I've been attending every year. I think maybe. The only year I might have missed was,

[00:04:53] must have been COVID. I think I went every year since 2012. And I've loved it.

[00:04:58] Mm-hmm.

[00:04:59] I've loved it. I've loved what they've done with technology. I think we were kind of like

[00:05:03] gel because they had the technology, they had all sorts of technology seminars and, you know.

[00:05:09] Yeah.

[00:05:09] Publishing and technology.

[00:05:12] Yeah. Tech Hub.

[00:05:13] And it was being, becoming more innovative. And well, okay. So I'm from obviously North America,

[00:05:20] right? And we have different kind of ways that we like being entertained and how, what kind of books

[00:05:29] that we like to read and everything else. And I really found that the big difference,

[00:05:35] being in the publishing industry, and I'll trail back on why I ended up at the London Book Fair, but

[00:05:42] it's people in Europe read. And I heard some amazing statistic, and I'm sure it's outdated. And if

[00:05:53] somebody else knows this in the comments, or please update us and let us know where I'm wrong.

[00:05:59] But the one that I heard back, some, a couple of years back, is that people in Europe tend to read

[00:06:08] over 50 books a year per person. Wow.

[00:06:12] And that's almost a book a week. Yeah.

[00:06:15] And like, that's some serious reading. Yeah.

[00:06:18] And this is for leisure, not including students. Yeah, yeah.

[00:06:22] That have to read. But in North America, we love to buy books, but we don't actually read them.

[00:06:32] You have them on your shelves.

[00:06:33] And most people read maybe less than two.

[00:06:38] Really?

[00:06:40] Yeah, yeah.

[00:06:41] But they've got a whole bunch that have really pretty covers in their bookcase.

[00:06:46] But actually, I saw there's a YouTube on it. It's like a woman who's like,

[00:06:51] I can't stop buying books when I'm not reading them. And so she was trying to,

[00:06:54] so I don't, no one's alone. North Americans really are like that.

[00:06:59] So going to a place in London where I can be in the tube station and on the side,

[00:07:06] they're advertising books.

[00:07:08] Fuck.

[00:07:09] Like not just one. And it's like people are reading in the tube.

[00:07:14] Like I went up to people and I'm like, like you're reading.

[00:07:17] Like what do you read?

[00:07:19] And they're like all the time.

[00:07:21] Every, like it's my deal. Right.

[00:07:23] And it's not here.

[00:07:25] People in North America really enjoy being stimulated in different ways,

[00:07:29] like TikTok, Instagram, YouTube.

[00:07:33] And there's nothing wrong with that, but it's just a different way of,

[00:07:38] our societies are the same yet different.

[00:07:40] And I'm sure, yes,

[00:07:42] there are a lot of people glued to their phones in the UK as well.

[00:07:44] And all over Europe.

[00:07:47] But so one of the reasons why I went to my first,

[00:07:50] my first London book fair was 2018.

[00:07:54] I went.

[00:07:55] And the reason I went was I had worked on a,

[00:08:01] and published to self publish and help coauthor a book about cheese.

[00:08:08] Believe it or not.

[00:08:10] I remember you telling me about it.

[00:08:11] And I went to have a look, you told me about it.

[00:08:14] And I went to have a look at it.

[00:08:15] Yeah.

[00:08:16] So it's an interactive book that's primarily made for the Apple iPad.

[00:08:21] So I'll, I'll share a little side note there.

[00:08:25] Like I'll deeper dive into about fixed format publishing and digital publishing,

[00:08:32] but I'll just keep on the path of why I was there.

[00:08:35] Okay.

[00:08:36] But, but keep that in mind.

[00:08:38] I will.

[00:08:39] There is politics involved.

[00:08:42] I'm spilling the tea here.

[00:08:45] I'm all ears.

[00:08:46] I'm all ears.

[00:08:46] I'm spilling the tea.

[00:08:48] I'm telling the truth.

[00:08:49] You got me right here.

[00:08:51] I got to take a sip because it's going to get really hot in here.

[00:08:54] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:08:55] Spill it.

[00:08:55] Spill it.

[00:08:57] Okay.

[00:08:57] So it took us two years.

[00:09:02] And the author, what mid project up and moved to Australia to become, went from being a cheese monger to wanting to be a cheese maker.

[00:09:16] Oh.

[00:09:18] And wanted to do an apprenticeship in Australia.

[00:09:21] Uh-huh.

[00:09:22] And as we were working on the book, I just want to tell these stories of like how the power of writing something can really help and change your career or your direction.

[00:09:35] The trajectory.

[00:09:36] And your approachability for people as well.

[00:09:39] Yes, exactly.

[00:09:40] Yeah.

[00:09:40] Um, so we, on the author's application to get into, uh, hopefully a dairy that would take them in as an intern, right?

[00:09:54] All the way from Canada.

[00:09:55] They said that they were an author of working on a book.

[00:09:59] And they found out later that was one of the reasons they got hired.

[00:10:04] Oh.

[00:10:05] So the book wasn't even finished at that point.

[00:10:08] Um, so it took us a while and I was working on other projects.

[00:10:12] I have, um, my background prior to doing these books, these interactive books was I was a web designer.

[00:10:21] Yeah.

[00:10:22] And I started back in the late nineties.

[00:10:25] Wow.

[00:10:26] So we're now showing my age.

[00:10:28] Noughties.

[00:10:28] No, I gotta put this.

[00:10:30] Don't you worry about that.

[00:10:32] Age is just a number.

[00:10:34] Yeah.

[00:10:34] Let's get up from there.

[00:10:35] In a digital age, there's no age.

[00:10:38] There's no age.

[00:10:39] Yeah, no, it is.

[00:10:40] It's how much do you want to learn?

[00:10:42] And because there's a, I, you can, your body can age, but you don't have to, anybody doesn't have to mentally grow up.

[00:10:48] Right.

[00:10:48] It's an option.

[00:10:50] I'm still a baby.

[00:10:51] I'm still 21.

[00:10:53] Yeah.

[00:10:53] So I learned at that time in the late nineties.

[00:10:59] Um, I learned how to code by viewing the source and learning Photoshop on all these stacks of CDs.

[00:11:10] And I, I, but one of the great things at that time, even though it was a very much, and still can be, it's getting better.

[00:11:20] And I'll talk more about that.

[00:11:21] And then, uh, a little bit more, but, um, is that it was very male dominated.

[00:11:27] Yeah.

[00:11:28] You know, being, being, being, being in the nineties, being a web designer or doing, it was, it was not very common.

[00:11:35] Yeah.

[00:11:36] Yeah.

[00:11:36] And the internet was very, very new.

[00:11:39] And people were thinking much like how, uh, uh, AI is kind of like the new rebirth.

[00:11:47] And I'll, I'll touch base on that.

[00:11:49] I'll try to speed up my little life story.

[00:11:52] But, um, but I, I, you know, I learned at that time and one of the great things, uh, and I'm kind of throwing out tips here, uh, um, how just learning how to do a create, like learn HTML.

[00:12:04] HTML and Photoshop really helped me get other jobs.

[00:12:08] Even though at that time I was like an executive admin, um, at that time and using those skills.

[00:12:14] And I ended up working, um, for a company and they had an intranet.

[00:12:19] So have you ever worked on an intranet?

[00:12:22] So, yeah.

[00:12:24] Yeah.

[00:12:24] Yeah.

[00:12:25] And I learned, so I was on a part of a company, um, that was global and they ran, um,

[00:12:32] um, Creo products and they were the responsible for computer to print technology.

[00:12:39] And it wiped out about nine jobs.

[00:12:42] Are you hearing like kind of how, you know, technology wipes out jobs because people who used to do printing, there was a nine step process to get where you need to go.

[00:12:52] And this is pixel perfect million dollars machines back then.

[00:12:56] Um, so being able to, um, be a part of something where I created an intranet, which is an internal, uh,

[00:13:05] Yeah.

[00:13:05] We didn't be able to do this.

[00:13:06] An intranet, uh, opposed to like an intranet is where people can access this unless it's behind a, uh, a firewall and you have to put your membership in.

[00:13:16] And, but an intranet is usually what a company is where they have all their documents.

[00:13:21] They have all their communications and they share things and resources.

[00:13:25] Yeah.

[00:13:25] So I was working on that and helping out roll out print energy and that is their staple software.

[00:13:33] So it was interesting because I had been working on that on a side thing when I was on my maternity leave and created my website that won a little award.

[00:13:43] Right.

[00:13:44] And yeah, so I, that's how I got that gig.

[00:13:49] So that kind of launched my, um, learning how technology was moving forward.

[00:13:54] And I started, I, I, I learned about, so I'm in Canada and I am on the border that's near Seattle, West coast.

[00:14:06] Oh, okay.

[00:14:07] Seattle web girls.

[00:14:08] And so I joined that.

[00:14:11] Seattle web girls.

[00:14:13] So, so let me, let me just, let me just interrupt and just say something to the listeners.

[00:14:18] So this, this is, we're talking about curiosity.

[00:14:21] Now B was taking her passion and curiosity and learning.

[00:14:26] And this is what has made her into what she is now because she's still learning.

[00:14:31] She's still at the cutting edge of current technology from that time to now.

[00:14:37] So there's never a time that you cannot start if you haven't started.

[00:14:41] I mean, if you're already into it, welcome to our world.

[00:14:45] Yes, most definitely.

[00:14:47] Most definitely.

[00:14:48] Most definitely.

[00:14:48] Most definitely.

[00:14:48] And that is if I, if anybody takes anything away from my, this podcast, it's exactly what you just said, Stella.

[00:14:59] It's not how old you are.

[00:15:01] It's your passion to do something that's outside of yourself.

[00:15:06] Right.

[00:15:07] And, and wanting to learn, just wanting to learn and knowing that it's changing all the time.

[00:15:13] Right.

[00:15:14] And it's sometimes it's easy.

[00:15:16] Sometimes it's not easy.

[00:15:18] It all depends.

[00:15:19] But if everything was easy, easy.

[00:15:21] It will never.

[00:15:22] Yeah.

[00:15:23] No, no, no, nothing.

[00:15:24] It's got to challenge you a little bit.

[00:15:25] So let's, so you, so let's kind of job because of time and all that.

[00:15:29] Yes.

[00:15:29] Most definitely.

[00:15:29] Yeah.

[00:15:30] So from there, right.

[00:15:33] Where did you now, because I want to know how you got into augmented reality and tell us what augmented reality is for those who don't know.

[00:15:41] Okay.

[00:15:43] Well, I spent a long time as a web designer and I ended up working for universities, pharmaceutical companies and fine artists.

[00:15:54] I had a very good career and I worked from home.

[00:15:58] So I could probably, I think I, I, when I start my own podcast, which will be in hopefully here in the fall.

[00:16:04] Yeah.

[00:16:04] One of the things I'm going to address is about what it's really like to be working from home for the last 25 years and how that's changed.

[00:16:10] But.

[00:16:10] Your own business.

[00:16:12] So your own business.

[00:16:13] You've been.

[00:16:13] Yeah.

[00:16:13] My own business.

[00:16:14] So being a consultant.

[00:16:16] Yeah.

[00:16:17] Being consultant helps.

[00:16:18] You can start that and, and give me the flexibility because I was a mother and, and needing to take care of my child.

[00:16:28] So I was very fortunate that at my partner at the time was also very much into HTML and learning itself and did public relations for online games.

[00:16:40] So I ended up calling myself a game widow because they're always playing these games.

[00:16:48] But fast forward, doing that for a long time, I shift, I took some breaks, you know, over.

[00:16:56] I did go back to school and I went to a local tech community, like a tech college.

[00:17:04] I was working still with, at the UBC and I went back to get my certificate.

[00:17:11] Right.

[00:17:12] So I was working with women who are MBAs.

[00:17:14] Right.

[00:17:15] Yeah.

[00:17:15] Here I am.

[00:17:16] I'm doing websites.

[00:17:17] It's just that the technology and the programs and certificates weren't available back then.

[00:17:21] And that was back in the early 2000s.

[00:17:25] Right.

[00:17:25] So moving forward, I made another couple of those interactive books that I talked about for another client.

[00:17:35] I've just really, that was really interesting.

[00:17:40] I mean, this other book is called The Power of Nordic Unity and it's a free download.

[00:17:47] But as I was mentioning before, the interactive books that I was making for the cheese book, it was made primarily for the Apple iPad.

[00:17:56] So that means you can't get it on Amazon.

[00:17:59] You can't add it to one of those tablets.

[00:18:03] Right.

[00:18:04] It's just not that kind of thing.

[00:18:07] And it has pop-ups.

[00:18:09] It has audio.

[00:18:10] It has galleries.

[00:18:14] All technology.

[00:18:15] Different things that you could do.

[00:18:16] Right.

[00:18:17] So this company that hired me, they did it for their 40th anniversary and mid-project, and this is in 2020.

[00:18:25] So when everybody was cleaning their closets, I was working.

[00:18:30] Look, to celebrate their 40th anniversary about Nordic.

[00:18:35] And they are, what Nordjanet is, is they are, they represent the five Nordic countries for Enrons.

[00:18:44] And so they are national research, education and science.

[00:18:48] And it's a network that these scientists use.

[00:18:51] So we have the internet.

[00:18:52] They have their own special one.

[00:18:54] Wow.

[00:18:54] Right.

[00:18:55] Yeah.

[00:18:55] So for the data scientists and the people around the world, like things that are really making the world happen.

[00:19:00] And secure.

[00:19:01] Right.

[00:19:01] So they are a part of those great technologies that have moved other people in the commercial sphere ahead.

[00:19:08] So when I did this book, mid-project Apple discontinued the software.

[00:19:15] Yeah.

[00:19:16] Typical.

[00:19:17] So to make the book.

[00:19:18] So that meant they weren't.

[00:19:19] And so I was using, it just shows how you have to be resourced.

[00:19:23] From C-mute to software.

[00:19:24] So, yeah.

[00:19:25] So I was like, I was at a turning point.

[00:19:28] Yeah.

[00:19:28] And I was like, what's going to happen?

[00:19:29] So the book is still, you can read it.

[00:19:32] Right.

[00:19:32] It just means that it's not available to make any more of these amazing books, the software.

[00:19:37] And I, InDesign does not do the same justice.

[00:19:43] Right.

[00:19:44] On InDesign, yeah.

[00:19:45] But we do have versions on the site.

[00:19:47] So it's Norgionet.

[00:19:49] So you can get a buffet.

[00:19:51] But there's not, like there's a digital rights management, like a DRM, which locks books in.

[00:19:56] But if it's a free book, we have a free version that you can download a reader called Lithium.

[00:20:01] And you can check it out.

[00:20:02] So anyway, jumping from that, I'm like, here I am all immersed in, you know, my publishing world.

[00:20:09] I would go to conferences called Digital Book World in New York and Nashville.

[00:20:14] And meeting all these things.

[00:20:16] Exciting.

[00:20:16] Sounds really exciting.

[00:20:17] Yeah.

[00:20:18] And moving forward.

[00:20:19] But it wasn't.

[00:20:20] It wasn't.

[00:20:21] And I met, so another London Book Fair moment.

[00:20:26] It was in, definitely in 2022.

[00:20:32] This really lovely woman.

[00:20:34] And, you know, we go to these networking events.

[00:20:36] So are we kind of after hours, people are like breaking out the bubbly or at least some juices and so forth.

[00:20:43] Break out the bubbly, guys.

[00:20:45] Yeah.

[00:20:46] Just to let people know.

[00:20:47] It's like, you know, I love the London Book Fair so much.

[00:20:51] Of course.

[00:20:52] You know.

[00:20:53] It's such a beautiful, I won't miss it.

[00:20:55] You know when you're winding, when they're winding down and, you know, yeah.

[00:20:58] Yeah.

[00:20:59] So anyway, we were, so long story short is, is I met this amazing author.

[00:21:04] And she, I showed her my iPad of this book and she's thinking, you know, you should really do coffee table books like that.

[00:21:13] But for businesses like whiskey and distilleries and stuff like that.

[00:21:17] And then like I'm realizing I can't because the software doesn't exist anymore.

[00:21:21] But then I realized I really love print just like everybody else does.

[00:21:25] And I know that there's a huge, I'm like, where's the bridge between like the digital engagement and the beauty of the print.

[00:21:37] Right.

[00:21:37] And so that started me on my journey and it got me excited just thinking about it.

[00:21:45] And I just couldn't let it go.

[00:21:46] And that's when AI came out and a lot, I was on mid journey.

[00:21:51] I was able to start using prompts to kind of bring my visions together.

[00:21:56] Like I want to create this augmented reality app for whiskey distillery in Ireland.

[00:22:03] You know, help me, show me.

[00:22:05] Let me stop you.

[00:22:07] Tell our audience, the people who don't know what augmented reality is.

[00:22:11] Most definitely.

[00:22:12] What is augmented reality?

[00:22:15] In the simplest term.

[00:22:18] So I'm going to throw out a term first is XR.

[00:22:22] So you're going to hear the term XR.

[00:22:25] That is basically a broader term that is encompasses all the different technologies that we use these cases.

[00:22:35] So if somebody says I do XR, it's just kind of like I do the Internet.

[00:22:39] Right.

[00:22:40] Kind of that blanket term.

[00:22:42] So virtual reality is immersive and you need to you're in your own environment and you're consumed.

[00:22:51] You have the Google.

[00:22:52] Yeah.

[00:22:52] And you put on.

[00:22:53] I've got my Google.

[00:22:54] I've got a Google.

[00:22:55] Yeah.

[00:22:55] So the meta meta headset two or three, the Apple lenses.

[00:23:00] And there's so many more that are coming out right now.

[00:23:05] And so you're going to hear things and it's going to take you in another realm.

[00:23:10] You're immersed.

[00:23:11] You're not really.

[00:23:12] And now, again, with the Apple Vision Pro, they're trying to create what's called mixed reality, where you can actually see other people in your scope while you're wearing the headset so that you're not oblivious to hurt yourself.

[00:23:28] Right.

[00:23:28] Because there's safety concerns.

[00:23:29] So that's where that is.

[00:23:32] And it's 3D based.

[00:23:34] So augmented reality and where I'm really focused on is it's kind of like a digital layover of the actual world.

[00:23:47] So we use our phones or tablets to actually see these installations or have these experiences.

[00:23:55] Most of them are accessed through a QR code or an app.

[00:23:59] Now, if anybody knows Pokemon Go, that's what augmented reality is.

[00:24:05] Parents.

[00:24:06] Parents.

[00:24:07] If you have young, your children.

[00:24:10] I'm sure if you're a parent or you have children of a certain age, they'll be using Pokemon Go, trying to go and, you know, with their phones.

[00:24:18] Because they use the phone now, don't they?

[00:24:20] To try and catch the Pokemon.

[00:24:22] So that's.

[00:24:23] Yes.

[00:24:23] So that's digital and the real.

[00:24:27] That's what.

[00:24:28] Yeah.

[00:24:28] It's an overlay.

[00:24:29] But then there's mixed reality.

[00:24:31] And that's also a digital element in the real world.

[00:24:36] So these could be possibly with the headset or possibly with new, the new glasses that are coming out and how that or could possibly be with your phone.

[00:24:46] So what happens is if you use your phone and you have a higher version like iPhone 15 that has an M2 chip in it, you can scan your room and it creates a mesh.

[00:24:57] And therefore it's going to determine.

[00:25:00] So if you have, oh, here's a piece of paper.

[00:25:03] If you have, like if there's a creature or a game that you're playing and it's hiding behind the couch.

[00:25:09] Yeah.

[00:25:10] Because we've scanned our room, the actual 3D character will know it'll be in that space and it'll feel like a mix of reality.

[00:25:18] And.

[00:25:20] Yeah.

[00:25:20] Yeah.

[00:25:21] Along with the digital layover.

[00:25:23] Yeah.

[00:25:23] Yeah.

[00:25:23] So I wanted to say as well that I think even the retailers, some of the retailers that we have here, and I'm sure it's all over now using augmented reality because I've tried to buy something.

[00:25:36] And they said, if you scan that corner of your room, they do an overlay, you know, so let's say you're buying a TV or you're buying a screen or something.

[00:25:45] And you want to know how it fits in your room.

[00:25:46] I think some retailers are doing that now.

[00:25:49] So some people would have actually come across some kind of augmented reality and not understand that this is what it is.

[00:25:56] So, but this is just, yeah.

[00:25:57] So this is your creativity and just learning some, that technology to bring it into that, that mix of digital and physical.

[00:26:11] It's incredible.

[00:26:12] Yeah.

[00:26:12] So that's broader.

[00:26:14] So if I dive more deeper, it's more into the AR and that's primarily exactly what you're talking about.

[00:26:21] Yeah.

[00:26:21] And it's letting you, like, that's very common with the IKEA app is where you can scan your room and see what the couch will look like or the table will look like in your home or where a TV will fit with electronics.

[00:26:34] And the other thing that people are doing within the AR realm is it's very diverse.

[00:26:39] There's like four or five different ways you can access AR and they all do different things.

[00:26:44] So the one that you're kind of talking about and that leads into that in the world of merchandise is you can try things on like earrings, watches, phones, phones.

[00:26:58] Even your glasses.

[00:27:00] Your glasses.

[00:27:01] Yes.

[00:27:02] Your glasses.

[00:27:02] And so, and so then if we lead into that, then we have face filters or snaps or lenses from Snapchat, TikTok, where you can do the fun filters.

[00:27:16] That's it.

[00:27:17] That's it.

[00:27:17] And they have ones for pets now too.

[00:27:20] Yeah.

[00:27:20] They are fantastic.

[00:27:22] So, so, so people are using the technology.

[00:27:24] I haven't started yet, but you can make money if you're a good creator and you can make games and tilt your head and different things like that.

[00:27:31] So they have a lot of those communities.

[00:27:35] They, so people are aspiring and they really think that those are kind of fun and they'd like to try it.

[00:27:39] They have huge communities where you can learn and lots of tutorials.

[00:27:45] Yeah.

[00:27:45] So the question now is, so in terms of the projects that you're working, obviously you've worked in publishing.

[00:27:53] And then of course you're, you're, you're, you're doing this, you know, augmented reality XR and all that.

[00:27:59] Yeah.

[00:27:59] Yeah.

[00:28:00] Because we have different, the different spectrums, don't we, of what, what they are.

[00:28:04] So for someone that is kind of like, okay, saying that, oh, I'm quite interested in doing something immersive and I want to start out.

[00:28:11] What is your advice to those people when they want to start out?

[00:28:14] If they want to start out in this?

[00:28:18] I'll share two other methods that you can use AR and that might help other people know where they want to begin.

[00:28:25] There's, there's other ones that are marker and marker lists, right?

[00:28:29] So, and then there's geospatial and they all are three or different.

[00:28:35] Marker based is where you have a actual design that you have made some kind of augmented reality experience, which could be anything from a video, an animation, a game.

[00:28:49] So whatever is triggering that image will then display on your phone, whatever that may be.

[00:28:57] So you have to have a definitive object.

[00:29:02] It has to recognize it.

[00:29:03] So it could be your book cover, let's say for authors.

[00:29:06] Yeah.

[00:29:06] And it could animate your cover and then pop up all your social media icons and it can link to things.

[00:29:13] So that's again, like marketing and promotions.

[00:29:16] The other one.

[00:29:17] So how do they do that?

[00:29:18] How do they do that?

[00:29:19] Let's, let's, let's tease that one out.

[00:29:21] You want to tease that one out?

[00:29:23] Because I've got other ones that I like too.

[00:29:25] Yeah, I know.

[00:29:27] That's where I'm heading.

[00:29:28] Yeah.

[00:29:29] Okay.

[00:29:29] So I just, I'll tell you.

[00:29:32] So that with that one, you can access those from QR codes as well.

[00:29:38] So if you're an author and you have your cover, you want to make it an augmented reality.

[00:29:45] You got to think, what is it that I want it to do once I get the person to capture whatever it is, if it's your cover.

[00:29:52] So you would be responsible for creating a animation or whatever that may be.

[00:29:58] A video, I think is really good.

[00:30:00] And when you do that, there's a whole bunch of different kinds of software out there that you can use it.

[00:30:05] Now, some are more complex and some are more user friendly.

[00:30:09] But just like the website, I just want to share this.

[00:30:12] Like, so, you know how we have our website on a server and we pay for that.

[00:30:18] And then if we get like a million hits on our website, they're going to hand us a big bill if we don't have that kind of data bandwidth.

[00:30:25] I tell you, yeah.

[00:30:26] So augmented reality is the same thing.

[00:30:28] A lot of this stuff is secured on servers and it has to be accessed.

[00:30:34] So we think about things like latency.

[00:30:36] Like, how long does it take in order for the person to download that experience and wait for it to happen?

[00:30:42] So there's a lot of things to consider, but there are like Zappar is a good company and Eighthwall for the developers.

[00:30:54] All of these things, they have the tools where you can bring in these scan things in, get it to recognize.

[00:31:01] On those platforms.

[00:31:02] On those platforms.

[00:31:03] All those platforms.

[00:31:04] So how do you know about that?

[00:31:05] So they don't have a subscription model.

[00:31:06] So do you have to pay?

[00:31:07] You pay to use it.

[00:31:08] Yeah.

[00:31:09] So what I'm saying is wherever you host it.

[00:31:11] Yeah.

[00:31:12] Right.

[00:31:12] Wherever you're going to host your experience.

[00:31:14] Like, so if you're zapping it, where, where does it live?

[00:31:17] Yeah.

[00:31:17] Yeah.

[00:31:17] So you've got to think about that.

[00:31:19] It's sitting on your computer at home.

[00:31:20] Right.

[00:31:21] It's anything you have to pay for hosting services and, and how many times.

[00:31:25] So again, even with, I think it would be really great.

[00:31:29] I actually mentioned this at the London book fair this year.

[00:31:33] And I asked one of the panels with TikTok and that being like knowing this is where your stuff is being hosted and everything else.

[00:31:40] And they are really into their marketing.

[00:31:42] If you tied in, like if you did a, one of those facial changes or a game or something for your path.

[00:31:50] And if it's based on your book, right.

[00:31:52] Right.

[00:31:52] You can run a campaign through Snapchat and with this filter and you could target it as your book advertising.

[00:32:02] Right.

[00:32:02] Based on a character in your book.

[00:32:04] Right.

[00:32:04] And you're reaching a whole new audience of these younger people.

[00:32:08] This is what I, this is what I was telling you about.

[00:32:10] Remember I was telling you about that, you know, that character, just being able to do things with your character, different things.

[00:32:16] Just, just the discovery that if you, if you have your character somewhere that you can actually do different things with it, that even if you can't do it, you might be able to find people who will do it for you.

[00:32:27] There's a lot of people.

[00:32:29] Yeah.

[00:32:29] There's a lot, there's a, there's directions that people can go to.

[00:32:33] In fact, what we're talking about is unexplored markets that needs to be explored.

[00:32:37] That has not been explored now.

[00:32:39] That's right.

[00:32:40] Traditionally.

[00:32:41] That's, that's right.

[00:32:41] That is new, but exciting.

[00:32:43] And I'll be taking lots of, um, I'll be taking the names and the links from B so that's, you know, I put in the show notes so that I can go and explore for yourself.

[00:32:54] If you're interested in that, or if you want to speak to someone who knows.

[00:32:58] Yeah.

[00:32:59] So just really quick.

[00:33:00] Yeah.

[00:33:01] I was just going to go.

[00:33:02] And then I want to go deep on like, just to give more tips to people and some really good resources.

[00:33:07] I want to offer some really great resources that I've not even had because we could probably talk for four hours.

[00:33:14] I know we're going to make it snappy, snappy.

[00:33:16] People are doing stuff.

[00:33:18] Things to do.

[00:33:18] But it makes supper.

[00:33:20] Got to lunch.

[00:33:21] And get to work.

[00:33:21] Supper, yeah.

[00:33:22] Yeah.

[00:33:22] Right.

[00:33:23] Um, so the other one that I, I, okay.

[00:33:25] So I went back to school.

[00:33:27] So I told myself, I was so excited about after London book fair.

[00:33:30] And then I went prior to that, I went to, um, digital book world in New York that year.

[00:33:35] And I met some high-end luxury printers.

[00:33:38] I love that.

[00:33:39] I love the word.

[00:33:40] Yeah.

[00:33:41] So I like high-end books.

[00:33:43] Like we're talking a limited edition.

[00:33:45] And so kind of books that, ooh, spray the news.

[00:33:48] The books that you say, my pretty, my pretty.

[00:33:53] I've got books like that.

[00:33:55] Right?

[00:33:56] So it got me really hopped up on like thinking if you give somebody an experience already because they love books.

[00:34:03] And you can put the other layer of augmented reality.

[00:34:06] Now, as we know with technology, things could change in five years.

[00:34:10] Right?

[00:34:10] But you would still have this beautiful book.

[00:34:13] Yeah.

[00:34:13] One would, don't know.

[00:34:14] But things evolve and change.

[00:34:16] Just like VHS and beta.

[00:34:17] If you're old enough to remember that.

[00:34:19] Yeah.

[00:34:20] Um, and so knowing that with, so I was all excited.

[00:34:25] And then I realized I need to know more.

[00:34:28] I need to know more if I'm going to do this part of my business.

[00:34:31] I really need to learn.

[00:34:32] And so I went to CircuitStream.

[00:34:35] It was a 10-week intensive.

[00:34:37] Sorry, where did you go?

[00:34:39] It's, yeah, it's online.

[00:34:41] Okay, what's it called?

[00:34:42] Pardon me?

[00:34:43] What was it called?

[00:34:44] It's called CircuitStream.

[00:34:47] I took the design and prototyping for XR.

[00:34:55] Yeah.

[00:34:56] So that was really good.

[00:34:57] So really quick overview on what that's like.

[00:35:00] It's not an inexpensive course.

[00:35:03] It costs.

[00:35:05] But it, you have hands-on, like you attend a Zoom.

[00:35:10] And I had to learn Unity.

[00:35:11] And we also had to learn on the VH, like the, sorry, the headsets.

[00:35:18] Yeah, yeah.

[00:35:19] And the thing that I wasn't really prepared for, because I bought the headset just to be

[00:35:25] in school.

[00:35:26] I was more interested in AR, but VR is a part of the course.

[00:35:29] That when you wear the headset, you have to use, go in and you have to use this software

[00:35:36] and learn how to build with your controllers in the metaverse.

[00:35:40] Wow.

[00:35:41] Yeah.

[00:35:41] So I wasn't used to that, wearing a headset and trying to design.

[00:35:45] You, they're trying to design in the metaverse.

[00:35:48] Wow.

[00:35:49] Yeah.

[00:35:50] So I can only wear it for about an hour before my, I would start to sweat.

[00:35:55] But I have learned that a lot of people that happens to, you do get used to it after

[00:36:00] a while.

[00:36:01] Yeah.

[00:36:01] But again, it's learning different tools.

[00:36:06] So then we went to learn Unity and learn it.

[00:36:08] Unity is a full on game engine.

[00:36:12] It is a very complex piece of software that takes probably between 30 minutes to set up

[00:36:20] just to set up your, your, before you can even start designing or creating anything.

[00:36:25] There's so many configurations that need to happen based on what you're trying to produce.

[00:36:30] It's a superior tool, but it's very inundating, intimidating.

[00:36:34] And there's a lot.

[00:36:36] And if you miss a switch, but the great thing about these courses is they record them and

[00:36:42] you can go back and then go through the lessons.

[00:36:44] And I really enjoyed going through those courses.

[00:36:47] It was quite demanding, but I had to learn.

[00:36:50] And then the other part was then, so I'm getting into what I started creating.

[00:36:54] So then we got into AR.

[00:36:56] Yay.

[00:36:56] I was so excited.

[00:36:58] And we, we learned from Messpark.

[00:37:01] We went and then started using a free program right now, which is called Adobe Arrow.

[00:37:07] And it's still in beta.

[00:37:09] And, but it was a really great tool.

[00:37:13] So as everybody was doing for their final project and a VR experience, which was limited

[00:37:20] because you only, you're doing your lessons and then you have to do your final project.

[00:37:25] You know, as students, they're a lot of work.

[00:37:28] So I did AR and I did Dewey, the desktop companion.

[00:37:34] And he's a little ghost with a little, very cute.

[00:37:38] And I made an interactive AR experience that was for the desktop.

[00:37:43] And that is a marketless one because you're not dependent upon scanning an image to get access to this experience.

[00:37:52] You scan a barcode.

[00:37:54] And I can put, I had to do a case study for my, it was a part of my final.

[00:38:01] And so if you want to play with Dewey and have some fun, we'll put the links in there.

[00:38:07] And it got me a very good grade.

[00:38:09] And I was recognized by the school for my project.

[00:38:14] So I was quite pleased by that.

[00:38:15] Now I'm older and I was with a lot of really talented people, probably in their mid thirties.

[00:38:23] Okay.

[00:38:24] They were designers that were looking to switch it up.

[00:38:28] So that's primarily the people that I've met.

[00:38:31] Now, get me wrong.

[00:38:32] So here's some resources for people.

[00:38:34] Now we're getting into what I do now and who I'm connected with.

[00:38:38] And one of the couple of entities is XR Women is an online entity.

[00:38:43] XR Women, okay.

[00:38:44] XR Women.

[00:38:45] And they are a nonprofit group that are helping women just give them a place of unity and resources to move forward.

[00:38:55] So I just wanted to put that out there.

[00:38:57] They also give discounts.

[00:38:59] They usually get a lot of discounts for people who want to attend different conferences.

[00:39:03] And so that helped me considerably attend this year's AWE in Long Beach, California, where I got to meet a lot of these people.

[00:39:12] What's AWE?

[00:39:14] What's that one?

[00:39:15] Pardon me?

[00:39:16] What's AWE?

[00:39:18] AWE is Augmented World.

[00:39:24] Oh, geez.

[00:39:27] So Augmented World.

[00:39:29] Expo.

[00:39:30] Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:31] Expo.

[00:39:32] Augmented World Expo.

[00:39:34] Geez, I didn't pass the talent.

[00:39:35] So if you're in kind of like in art, in design.

[00:39:39] Yeah, it does.

[00:39:41] You want to kind of like, you know, get to the next level, you know, or work on your trajectory.

[00:39:47] You should be listening to what B is saying now.

[00:39:50] So a lot of people might say, okay, this might have nothing to do with B, but you might actually be an author who wants to also, or author or someone creative who wants to employ someone in this field and you want to know what you're looking out for.

[00:40:04] So this is relevant to you as well.

[00:40:07] But more than anything else, look at that Augmented World Expo.

[00:40:11] That sounds exciting.

[00:40:13] Yeah.

[00:40:13] So this is for hardcore folks, right?

[00:40:17] That are really interested and to learn more.

[00:40:22] So this is kind of where now this is the one.

[00:40:27] It's a global organization.

[00:40:28] So this was the one for North America.

[00:40:30] I do have this listed up here.

[00:40:32] I just want to share really quickly before I get into it is they have one that's happening here in for the people in Europe.

[00:40:40] And that's in the fall.

[00:40:41] So I wanted to share that.

[00:40:43] So that's September, October.

[00:40:44] So it's AWEXR.com.

[00:40:47] But if you type in AWE and the one that's happening in Vienna, Austria is October 29th and 30th.

[00:40:58] And so, yeah.

[00:41:00] And if I don't think by the time that we're this is good, there's another one that happens as well.

[00:41:08] And it's for the people in Asia.

[00:41:09] And that's in August.

[00:41:11] But that's where we are right now.

[00:41:13] But we're not in the 26th.

[00:41:15] So they might miss it.

[00:41:16] But they might go next year.

[00:41:17] Right.

[00:41:17] So if people you never know where people are listening in.

[00:41:20] So it's an incredible conference.

[00:41:23] There's a lot of breakout categories.

[00:41:25] They had probably over 500 speakers.

[00:41:29] And they have everything on their floor, the conference floor, all sorts of abilities to try on these new hardwares and inventions.

[00:41:41] Because they're trying to get them in front of developers and companies that are already interested.

[00:41:46] And so I got to try on my first pair of Vision Pro Apple and get to try on a lot of different headsets that are trying to become more augmented reality than virtual reality.

[00:42:03] And that was very exciting.

[00:42:06] But the lines were pretty long to get into those.

[00:42:09] You have to sign up for them.

[00:42:11] Right.

[00:42:11] But it was really exciting.

[00:42:13] The XR Women Awards were there.

[00:42:16] And they really celebrated these amazing women for their achievements.

[00:42:22] And there's many.

[00:42:24] I can't tell you off the top of my head because they're all very interesting and quite complex.

[00:42:31] But the one thing that I didn't touch base on when I was talking about there's one other one, when I was talking about the geospatial.

[00:42:40] One of the reasons why I went to this conference is about the law.

[00:42:47] Okay.

[00:42:47] And the legal implications of using some of these.

[00:42:51] So when I was in school, I was learning about geospatial, but we didn't do it there.

[00:42:56] And because I had used Adobe Arrow, I signed up for the Adobe Arrow geospatial beta plan.

[00:43:04] So this is funny.

[00:43:05] So what this does is it's like Pokemon Go.

[00:43:08] And I created this 10-foot wide valentine.

[00:43:15] And I made my own music.

[00:43:16] I generated my assets through 3D text to AI.

[00:43:20] And I created this amazing kind of experience.

[00:43:24] It's just like an ornament that plays music and you can touch it.

[00:43:28] And actually, I have it on my TikTok.

[00:43:30] So we'll put that link in there and you can see it.

[00:43:32] We'll put the link in there.

[00:43:33] Yeah.

[00:43:33] So do people just watch it as normal when they watch it?

[00:43:37] They watch it as normal?

[00:43:39] Yeah.

[00:43:39] So they're just going to see a recording of it that I took on my phone.

[00:43:43] So there's another one that's like a Chinese dragon at night in the rain.

[00:43:47] And it has shadows.

[00:43:49] So it's an experience that you see outside.

[00:43:52] So my concern was, is when I went to this, where there was some actual legal, there was only two.

[00:43:59] But I attend to the world.

[00:44:01] And I asked them about, like with Pokemon Go, think about it.

[00:44:04] When people are walking around, looking at their phone, trying to find something, they hurt themselves.

[00:44:10] Who's liable?

[00:44:10] Oh, gosh.

[00:44:11] I saw, I tell you something.

[00:44:13] Like a month back, I saw a, I was on a bus.

[00:44:16] I'm in London.

[00:44:17] You know, we have buses here.

[00:44:19] So I saw this group of young people with phones.

[00:44:22] Me, when I'm on the bus, all I do is read.

[00:44:25] People will see me on my phone, but I'm actually reading a book or something.

[00:44:27] You know, when I saw them all intently start staring on their phones and all kind of chattering excitedly.

[00:44:35] And the next minute, they all rushed out of the bus when the bus stopped right in the middle of a double, we call it dual carriageway.

[00:44:44] They went, crossed over to, you know, pass all the traffic, went in the middle of the dual carriageway and you could see them with the phones.

[00:44:50] And I thought, OMG.

[00:44:52] These young people are so excited about it.

[00:44:55] They're not even thinking about safety.

[00:44:58] So I don't know.

[00:44:59] Yeah.

[00:45:00] So I always want to ask you those things because the thing about it, there's some really amazing companies out there.

[00:45:06] High-end luxury brands right now are doing this.

[00:45:11] Which brands do you think anyone?

[00:45:12] Yeah, so you can have an augmented reality.

[00:45:14] Pardon me?

[00:45:15] Yeah.

[00:45:15] No, that's a which, which, do you know any kind of brand that is doing?

[00:45:19] Yeah, so Gucci, Dior and stuff like that.

[00:45:23] So what they're doing is they're creating more of an AR experience right through your phone and you can like look at one of their buildings outside one of their shops and it'll give like a whole experience.

[00:45:36] Right?

[00:45:36] And so the couple of things that I was asking about was, and there's people writing about it and it's a digital clutter, right?

[00:45:45] So let's say that you have a business in a really great area and it's cool.

[00:45:50] And all of a sudden I start putting all of my augmented reality geospatial experiences outside your coffee shop and all the influencers and people go there.

[00:46:02] Do you know what I mean?

[00:46:02] And like, if this is happening and the more prevalent this stuff is available, I can see issues is what I was saying.

[00:46:11] So what they were calling me is, is for now we're okay.

[00:46:14] It's the liability has to come from, you have to have a disclaimer that people are using these things at their own risk and there's an age cap, right?

[00:46:22] Because children are very impressionable.

[00:46:24] And with the Pokemon Go, I think that really helped.

[00:46:29] That was a great experiment.

[00:46:32] And, you know, you learn through the boundaries of like what happens when you release those kinds of things.

[00:46:38] And that's been out for a long time.

[00:46:40] So I wonder for those people that don't understand what geospatial is, can you just simply, in a simple tense, tell them what geospatial is?

[00:46:50] So is it?

[00:46:52] It's like it's augmented reality.

[00:46:55] Kind of like what you're seeing.

[00:46:58] It's the outdoor version that's plotted on Google Earth.

[00:47:03] So here's a good example.

[00:47:04] When I was saying about I was making all these Valentines, I was plotting that I would make my 3D experience.

[00:47:13] Then I would load it up in Adobe Arrow and I would load up a version of the Earth.

[00:47:19] And then I would find my friends in New York or London or South Spring Island.

[00:47:27] And I would plot that little experience on their lawn.

[00:47:31] And then I would send them a QR code.

[00:47:34] And I'd say, go find it because it's on your lawn.

[00:47:38] And that's what I did.

[00:47:40] Can you imagine that happening at Christmas?

[00:47:42] Christmas, Christmas, Christmas on your lawn.

[00:47:46] Can you imagine that happening?

[00:47:49] Christmas.

[00:47:50] Remember Christmas on your lawn?

[00:47:51] That would be so magical.

[00:47:53] People are doing that.

[00:47:54] That would be magical.

[00:47:55] So if you can do that, yeah.

[00:47:56] Wow.

[00:47:57] Yeah.

[00:47:58] Like if people get married, you know, a celebration of life.

[00:48:01] I actually asked a woman from that I met and she's a part of end of life, right?

[00:48:10] Cremation and stuff like that.

[00:48:12] And it's a post like a new way of doing things, right?

[00:48:14] And I said, well, you know, you could have a celebration of life, right?

[00:48:19] You know, like anything you can think of.

[00:48:22] Like it could be anything.

[00:48:24] You can have a 50 foot or no, more than that whale flying over your house.

[00:48:33] That is incredible.

[00:48:35] And it looks like magical.

[00:48:36] And I'm sure, I'm sure it's coming soon.

[00:48:39] Very, very soon.

[00:48:40] It will be a common thing.

[00:48:41] It's all changing real fast.

[00:48:43] Yeah.

[00:48:43] So AI, I just want to touch base on some of the people that I, just to give some resources

[00:48:48] of who to follow for the trends.

[00:48:50] Because I know we've been chatting for a while now.

[00:48:53] And I wanted to make sure I get that in there about people who are really interested in AI

[00:48:58] and all of this other thing.

[00:49:00] So again, XR Women is, if you're, you know, you're interested in finding a community,

[00:49:09] they have meetings every Wednesday, and you are like a metaverse type.

[00:49:13] That's online.

[00:49:15] Yeah.

[00:49:15] So you want to join that if you want, you can go to their website.

[00:49:19] And they're also on LinkedIn and all the socials.

[00:49:22] So the other thing is, is there's another organization, but it's for people who have their own company,

[00:49:29] or who are hardcore into VR and AR development.

[00:49:33] And that's the VRAR Association, and they are global.

[00:49:37] And so they have chapters all around the world.

[00:49:39] So I have one here in Vancouver, and there's like one in California.

[00:49:42] You know what I mean?

[00:49:44] They're all over the world.

[00:49:45] So just letting you know, and there's some perks to being a member there,

[00:49:48] but it is paid, and it's not low end, right?

[00:49:52] But the great thing about them is, is you can, and I'm myself, I have to become a member,

[00:49:58] because one of the perks of having them is you can test out on their,

[00:50:02] you can rent some of the, instead of vesting in all of the headsets,

[00:50:05] you can rent them, and you can kind of share, right, to test your stuff.

[00:50:09] Fantastic, yeah.

[00:50:10] So about AI, I really love, like text to create images or 3D.

[00:50:18] And one person I want, I think you should follow, and who's incredible,

[00:50:22] her name is Heather Cooper, and she's on, she has her own YouTube channel.

[00:50:29] Okay.

[00:50:29] And she has her tutorials.

[00:50:31] She's done tutorials.

[00:50:33] And this woman is incredible.

[00:50:35] She is a pharmacist, that, and a mom.

[00:50:38] This is a side geek.

[00:50:39] Oh my God, awesome.

[00:50:40] She is really immersed in AI.

[00:50:41] She is one of the top people who make stuff.

[00:50:45] I'm telling you slowly, go find her.

[00:50:47] I'm going to go find her.

[00:50:48] On X.

[00:50:49] The best place to get access to see her work on the daily is go on the daily.

[00:50:55] I'll go to X.

[00:50:56] Really amazing.

[00:50:57] Yeah.

[00:50:57] So the next resource I wanted to share with everybody,

[00:51:00] and I actually got to meet this person in real life in Long Beach,

[00:51:04] out of the blue as I'm walking.

[00:51:06] Okay.

[00:51:06] I was so excited.

[00:51:08] I was like, this person is my favorite go-to for AI, and his name is Matt Wolf.

[00:51:15] And he is Mr. E-Flow on Twitter, which he has a following,

[00:51:20] but he has over 600,000 followers on YouTube.

[00:51:23] I am going to be following us.

[00:51:24] So he's Matt Wolf, and he explains the news, the drama.

[00:51:28] He does tutorials.

[00:51:29] He's a great guy.

[00:51:31] Just a good vibe.

[00:51:32] And he has a website, so it's called futuretools.io,

[00:51:38] and that's where he really curates a good list of not high-end AI tools

[00:51:45] of what you can use because they're popping up daily.

[00:51:48] And so that's an excellent, excellent resource.

[00:51:51] Yes, fantastic.

[00:51:52] The other person that you can follow on Twitter or slash X is Robert Scoble.

[00:52:00] And there's one other person I wanted to share about.

[00:52:03] So Robert Scoble was around.

[00:52:05] He's around my age, and he's been around from the beginning of Surrey.

[00:52:11] So he's a former strategist at Microsoft, and he is an amazing man.

[00:52:17] He has a community, an AI community.

[00:52:20] And, yeah, they're giving out.

[00:52:23] He's connected with a lot of amazing people, and he attends.

[00:52:26] He speaks a lot in Twitter spaces, and he makes himself available.

[00:52:31] And he's just a good old cowboy kind of guy.

[00:52:37] And there's one last person I want to share that I just thought was really –

[00:52:43] it just kind of touched me about this XR kind of community.

[00:52:48] Yeah.

[00:52:48] So I was on – primarily a lot of these people I find are on X, right?

[00:52:55] So that's where I post most often,

[00:52:57] where I'm looking for the latest kind of information about VR, AR, XR, MR, mixed reality.

[00:53:04] So his – this guy, his name is Tony.

[00:53:09] He's Italian.

[00:53:11] Italian.

[00:53:12] He's from Italy.

[00:53:14] Italian.

[00:53:15] Hi, Tony.

[00:53:16] I'm going to send him a link.

[00:53:18] He's one of the most – he put on – and we'll put links.

[00:53:23] He did a mixed reality where he put – he somehow got it to attach the mesh to a bottle

[00:53:32] and then was pouring like a magic – I can't explain it well enough,

[00:53:38] but you have to see.

[00:53:40] It's like sparkles coming out of the water.

[00:53:42] So people –

[00:53:43] People, all of –

[00:53:45] So because I know we've been talking – we've been talking a while,

[00:53:48] and some – some might fly over your head.

[00:53:51] Some you might understand.

[00:53:53] So if you want to know what we're talking about or what Bea has been talking about,

[00:53:58] because she's the expert, yeah?

[00:54:00] All those – we'll put all these people on the show notes.

[00:54:03] Go see what is happening out there.

[00:54:05] Because you probably see – you're going to see it first in movies,

[00:54:08] and you see it in different – you might see it maybe in social media.

[00:54:12] But – so VR, virtual reality.

[00:54:16] VR, augmented reality.

[00:54:18] XR stands for – Bea?

[00:54:20] What does it stand for?

[00:54:21] XR is just a company.

[00:54:23] It's an umbrella of all of the technologies.

[00:54:26] So I just want to say one last thing about Tony, about him.

[00:54:30] I reached out to him on Twitter and said how great I thought what he had posted was,

[00:54:35] and I thought he was incredible.

[00:54:36] And then I saw that he posted that he was going to A.A.W.E. that year in June.

[00:54:42] And I just – I said, do you have any advice for somebody who's going there for the first time?

[00:54:48] Because there's so much going on.

[00:54:49] And the fear of missing out, like the FOMO, is real.

[00:54:52] Of course.

[00:54:53] He wrote a blog post on his blog.

[00:54:58] Like my question inspired him.

[00:55:00] So I will – yeah, definitely in the show notes on his blog about what it's like to attend the first time.

[00:55:07] And so I went and saw him speak at his presentation when I was there and thanked him very much for that.

[00:55:12] So it was really great.

[00:55:13] So, again, in the show notes, that's the way we can add some value.

[00:55:17] This is somebody – this man's, like, probably a genius.

[00:55:21] And he's so funny, too.

[00:55:22] His presentation was –

[00:55:23] I like geniuses.

[00:55:25] Yeah, he was.

[00:55:26] And he's really smart and he makes a lot of crazy stuff.

[00:55:28] So I want to ask a question.

[00:55:30] Yeah?

[00:55:31] So there's me, ordinary me, who likes to write, who likes to speak.

[00:55:34] You know?

[00:55:35] That's kind of my power.

[00:55:37] And I'm very interested in food, in technology.

[00:55:40] Quite a few things.

[00:55:41] I dive into the rabbit hole.

[00:55:43] And I want to – I use – so this is what I'm saying to people now, like me, you know?

[00:55:48] Where you have multiple bits of different things that you do.

[00:55:52] And you can bring that back, you know, and use it.

[00:55:55] So I have a character that I want to experiment with, a character that I'm going to do all

[00:56:01] sorts of things with, yeah?

[00:56:02] In a book.

[00:56:03] So if I was saying, let's say I've got a short story about this character.

[00:56:06] What are the ideas that you give me about the things I could do with this character if

[00:56:10] I was going to do Excel, VR, or any of those things?

[00:56:15] Because I come from the writing bits of this.

[00:56:18] I don't have the design or anything.

[00:56:20] What ideas would you give me?

[00:56:22] My first advice would be be open to learning about the new technology.

[00:56:29] Don't get frustrated.

[00:56:30] And applaud yourself that you want to look at a new way of doing things to engage more

[00:56:34] people in a new way.

[00:56:36] The first thing I would say is if you want to, I would say augmented reality is probably

[00:56:43] going to be your best bet if you're a self-published author.

[00:56:46] VR is going to cost you, unless you're learning how to do it yourself.

[00:56:50] If you're looking at something that's going to start at like $50,000.

[00:56:54] Like a movie.

[00:56:56] So if you want to create a movie.

[00:56:58] So if you want an actual, and that's probably global.

[00:57:02] And anything else?

[00:57:04] So augmented reality has a lot more tools.

[00:57:07] So I would just say there is the possibility to do it yourself.

[00:57:11] They're making more things.

[00:57:15] So as an author, here's the top three things that I think you could do with augmented reality.

[00:57:20] The first one I would say is something with your book cover, right?

[00:57:24] So you have obviously some form of QR code.

[00:57:29] So I would suggest we don't want to put that on the front book cover, but we could have a

[00:57:33] bookmark with the QR code on it.

[00:57:35] And that would lead people into, you know, it's kind of like, the thing I like to say is,

[00:57:42] is it's kind of like a secret world, right?

[00:57:44] When you scan things and nobody else knows what you're looking at, you're the one having

[00:57:49] the experience on your book.

[00:57:50] The experience, yeah.

[00:57:51] So realize that.

[00:57:53] So you can animate your book cover and you could flip it over and they can have access

[00:57:58] to all your socials, right?

[00:58:00] So people can click and go to your website.

[00:58:02] So already you're kind of interactive.

[00:58:04] You can make a t-shirt, right?

[00:58:07] That's animated, right?

[00:58:09] That people know.

[00:58:10] Okay.

[00:58:11] Okay.

[00:58:11] So you make the t-shirts and you put a kind of barcode on it.

[00:58:15] And then you can actually put the barcode.

[00:58:18] So here's the thing.

[00:58:20] Lots of people are putting the barcode on the tag.

[00:58:22] Uh-huh.

[00:58:23] Yeah.

[00:58:24] So they don't have to put the barcode there.

[00:58:26] On the t-shirt.

[00:58:27] So let me break it down.

[00:58:30] So I buy a t-shirt and it's got a barcode somewhere.

[00:58:33] I take my phone.

[00:58:34] Is it an iPhone or an Android?

[00:58:36] It could be either.

[00:58:37] So I take my phone.

[00:58:38] I scan that barcode.

[00:58:40] And then what happens?

[00:58:41] Whatever the author has created, I see on my phone.

[00:58:44] It could be a game.

[00:58:46] It could take you to TikTok.

[00:58:48] It could take you.

[00:58:49] It could play music.

[00:58:51] It could play it at me.

[00:58:52] So the author has drawn you from the physical world into the digital world that they've created.

[00:58:58] This is an exciting author.

[00:59:00] Instantly.

[00:59:00] Start listening.

[00:59:01] Your toe bags.

[00:59:02] Mugs.

[00:59:03] Immersive.

[00:59:03] Yeah.

[00:59:04] Mugs.

[00:59:05] And the beautiful thing is, is think about a website, right?

[00:59:09] You always change your website, right?

[00:59:12] I do.

[00:59:12] I change my website all the time.

[00:59:13] You're sending them to something.com or whatever.

[00:59:17] Yeah.

[00:59:18] You can do the same thing with these codes, right?

[00:59:22] As long as you keep the same barcode, you can just change it up and send it out to people

[00:59:26] going, you scan.

[00:59:28] I got a new goodie for you.

[00:59:30] Now, the other thing is, is you can add other merchandise, right?

[00:59:34] That you send it along with your book.

[00:59:36] And that's where I'm headed.

[00:59:37] I'm wanting to give experiences based on how the merchandise interacts within possible subscription

[00:59:45] boxes and to give people a real experience.

[00:59:48] So the merchandise, which also can coincide with a chapter within the book, they can have

[00:59:58] a chapter within a book.

[00:59:59] Yeah.

[00:59:59] And you get the merchandise to match it.

[01:00:01] That's fantastic.

[01:00:02] Yeah.

[01:00:02] So there's book clubs out there right now, subscriptions, where it's very much that.

[01:00:06] There's no AR right now.

[01:00:08] You're just getting their book and then you're getting little gifts, but it says open on page

[01:00:14] 25.

[01:00:15] Okay.

[01:00:16] And then you, so let's say it was hot chocolate, right?

[01:00:19] Mm-hmm.

[01:00:20] And you, in the book, it's a romance and they're having hot chocolate by the fire, right?

[01:00:25] Yes.

[01:00:26] So you're in the mood with your, you're kind of having the same experience.

[01:00:30] Yeah.

[01:00:30] But if, with, with what I want to do is I want to just take it up a layer.

[01:00:34] Oh, if you scan it, what would happen to that hot chocolate?

[01:00:39] Okay.

[01:00:40] Would a movie pop up?

[01:00:41] Would a game pop up?

[01:00:42] Would you get a link to a discount to get more hot chocolate?

[01:00:48] From the, you know, and from the book to the physical.

[01:00:52] Wow.

[01:00:52] It's exciting.

[01:00:53] If I'm the hot chocolate people, I'm going to see those analytics that somebody scanned

[01:00:58] and accessed it.

[01:00:59] That's something you've never known before.

[01:01:01] So people can even do it in partnership with, with people who are, you know, so someone

[01:01:06] is selling hot chocolate and say, look, let's collab.

[01:01:09] Yeah.

[01:01:10] Let's do a collaboration.

[01:01:12] In my book, people will open it to this.

[01:01:14] They buy, I get a little bit on the side, you know?

[01:01:17] You bet.

[01:01:18] Yeah.

[01:01:19] Commission.

[01:01:20] Or you basically, they give you the free product and they just get the analytics.

[01:01:24] Or, or the, yes.

[01:01:25] Or they give you the free product.

[01:01:26] So the person goes.

[01:01:27] Yeah.

[01:01:27] They give you the free product and you give them the analytics.

[01:01:30] Yeah.

[01:01:31] Because if you go, I put all these little things and you go, did anybody use them?

[01:01:37] Right.

[01:01:37] Maybe you put in other things like a notebook.

[01:01:40] Yeah.

[01:01:40] Or all sorts of stuff.

[01:01:42] You experiment.

[01:01:44] I was listening to.

[01:01:44] Yeah.

[01:01:45] Yeah.

[01:01:45] Yeah.

[01:01:45] Yeah.

[01:01:45] So you're, you're, you're trying to give your merchandise to your, to your followers.

[01:01:50] Yeah.

[01:01:50] Yeah.

[01:01:51] Yeah.

[01:01:52] Things like that.

[01:01:52] Mm-hmm.

[01:01:53] Yeah.

[01:01:54] So that's what I would suggest is like, if you're interested in, in those kinds of things,

[01:01:59] I would figure out there's low end augmented reality.

[01:02:05] And then there's going to be high end because it all depends on what it is that you're accessing.

[01:02:10] But I would say if you're really, I would start with people going, if you're really passionate

[01:02:14] about that and you're kind of a do it yourself kind of person, do the Snapchat filters for

[01:02:18] the face of the pets or how tie that in somehow, because right away, it's going to be less

[01:02:24] expensive for you to advertise.

[01:02:26] It's better rates than Facebook and better results and better.

[01:02:30] You know, I've never used Snapchat.

[01:02:33] Get on it.

[01:02:36] For some reason.

[01:02:37] I know a lot of people don't use it.

[01:02:39] I don't know why I never go into Snapchat, but yeah, why not?

[01:02:41] You don't have to use it.

[01:02:42] You could just make your own things.

[01:02:44] Right.

[01:02:45] And it's the same thing with TikTok.

[01:02:47] Same thing with TikTok.

[01:02:48] We use the filters for what I need to do.

[01:02:50] Do the filters.

[01:02:51] Right.

[01:02:51] And I think that's an easy, easy way.

[01:02:53] Easy way for me to quickly build something.

[01:02:55] That's all you're saying.

[01:02:56] Yeah.

[01:02:56] Without having to do all the, without the tech tech bits, you know, we leave all the big

[01:03:01] ones to you.

[01:03:02] So if you're, I would say like the high end stuff is unity engine.

[01:03:06] So what I'm telling you, I have 25 years and, and, and I'm, I was, I coded it, you

[01:03:11] know, I'm, I don't consider myself a coder at all.

[01:03:13] Really.

[01:03:13] I just, I'm familiarized myself enough so that I can speak properly and concisely to

[01:03:19] a developer.

[01:03:21] Right.

[01:03:21] That's the difference between a good designer or not, uh, who educates themselves on the

[01:03:26] process and the pain points.

[01:03:28] The other person has to do.

[01:03:29] So that's why I took these courses so I can understand what it is and how long things

[01:03:34] take and what do you have to troubleshoot?

[01:03:36] So knowing that there's this higher end in tech, it, it may not be so accessible for the

[01:03:42] self published do it yourself person.

[01:03:43] But I am offering those ideas saying you don't need to be limited.

[01:03:47] If you're, if you're scrappy and you think I can do this and go ahead.

[01:03:51] But if you have bigger plans, like I said, things are getting easier and less with AI.

[01:03:57] Yeah.

[01:03:57] Right.

[01:03:57] I mean, you can now do text to 3d.

[01:04:01] So if you were on the discord and you go on genie, you ask for genie.

[01:04:07] And again, we'll put a link, uh, on the discord server, you can do text to 3d.

[01:04:11] Like I created some of the elements for my final project, like the little cat and the

[01:04:16] tombstone and I just cleaned them up.

[01:04:18] Right.

[01:04:18] And so it's amazing.

[01:04:19] Like I didn't have to buy that.

[01:04:22] I didn't have to hire someone.

[01:04:23] Yeah.

[01:04:24] So yeah.

[01:04:25] Creating all these different things is amazing.

[01:04:28] And I say, have fun with it and experiment and, and don't be afraid of it.

[01:04:33] And, and I mean, the future looks exciting.

[01:04:35] So what, so with all of what you've got, your experience and everything you've got now,

[01:04:40] what are the things that you're most excited about for the future for yourself or be interactive

[01:04:46] be media?

[01:04:51] Well, I'm sweet by the two things of, but by adding a layer for authors and, and having

[01:05:00] maybe, you know, that kind of experience with the merchandise and really helping them

[01:05:04] expand.

[01:05:04] So, so, so instead of, yeah.

[01:05:05] So I come to you like the way I've got the idea and I say, be, can you do this for me?

[01:05:10] I want this, you know, and you probably might even do it for a publisher.

[01:05:13] Cause publishers will be interested in this.

[01:05:17] And funnily enough.

[01:05:19] I've not, we didn't see, did we see anything?

[01:05:21] Cause London Buffet is a bit, say lots to, to take it, but I didn't see anything regarding

[01:05:26] this at all in the book fair.

[01:05:27] Did you, did you see anything in terms of XR at the London Buffet?

[01:05:32] The last one.

[01:05:34] The XR, XR is just the umbrella for AR.

[01:05:38] I know there were talks.

[01:05:40] But I think.

[01:05:41] The reality would be, you'd have to be a developer to do stuff like that right now.

[01:05:46] No, no.

[01:05:46] What I'm saying is that, you know, like when publisher would display their books or display

[01:05:50] something.

[01:05:51] Oh yeah.

[01:05:52] Anybody with a store.

[01:05:53] I spoke to a few people, you know, in technology section, somebody say, no, this is what I'm

[01:05:57] doing now with VR or AR.

[01:06:01] I don't know what I saw a lot of that at the book fair or not.

[01:06:05] There was three, there was three companies.

[01:06:08] Yeah.

[01:06:08] Yeah.

[01:06:09] So there was one.

[01:06:10] And so it was very encouraging.

[01:06:14] One woman who was an author and her own business.

[01:06:17] And she got into it because her son is autistic.

[01:06:23] And she's coming to the, she doesn't know it.

[01:06:26] She doesn't know it, but she's coming to the podcast.

[01:06:28] I mean, I told her already, actually, I think I told her that that was one woman.

[01:06:32] Yes.

[01:06:33] She's actually a talk.

[01:06:34] And she did a talk.

[01:06:35] Remember, she did a talk.

[01:06:36] She did an excellent talk.

[01:06:37] Yes.

[01:06:38] Yes.

[01:06:38] I, I told her, I will be interested in her coming and she'll come and talk.

[01:06:42] So because she's, she, she did it for children's stories.

[01:06:46] Yes.

[01:06:46] So I'm quite excited about what she's doing.

[01:06:48] Yeah.

[01:06:49] Her son went from being nonverbal to chatty.

[01:06:52] It was.

[01:06:52] And that's amazing.

[01:06:54] It was quite emotional.

[01:06:56] And that will help a lot of parents who have children with those kind of special needs.

[01:07:01] Yeah.

[01:07:02] So she's using.

[01:07:03] I'll be inviting her to the podcast.

[01:07:06] Yeah.

[01:07:06] Yeah.

[01:07:07] She's using augmented reality to help her son.

[01:07:10] She couldn't focus.

[01:07:11] Right.

[01:07:11] Yeah.

[01:07:12] And that happens with a lot.

[01:07:13] So I've got, I'm looking at my second screen here trying to say, ask one question.

[01:07:19] I asked a few questions.

[01:07:20] So I actually wanted to finish answering one other.

[01:07:23] Okay.

[01:07:24] Okay.

[01:07:25] Go on then.

[01:07:25] Go on then.

[01:07:26] Go on then.

[01:07:26] I wanted to share one more.

[01:07:27] Go on then.

[01:07:28] So the big, and then you can ask me anything you want.

[01:07:31] I just want to share this part because I really love the geospatial stuff.

[01:07:35] Being able to outside.

[01:07:36] There's another component, another part of AR and it's called internal wayfinding.

[01:07:42] Internal.

[01:07:43] Internal.

[01:07:45] Wayfinding.

[01:07:46] Wow.

[01:07:46] This one would need an app on its own.

[01:07:49] Or you could scan it with a barcode.

[01:07:51] So imagine going into a university and you don't know your way to get around class and

[01:07:56] it's your first day.

[01:07:57] It's going to show you where to get to your class.

[01:07:59] You're in a hotel.

[01:08:00] You need to know.

[01:08:01] But you can make it a lot of fun so that you're walking along and you could be popping bubbles

[01:08:06] or do you know what I mean?

[01:08:08] Whatever is guiding you through and your direction and you can get people an experience and you

[01:08:13] can GPS them and know, again, from the analytics, the other side of the coin of, you know, who's

[01:08:19] creating the software is you see how and help people because especially when like I, my dream

[01:08:26] is to be able to do it for hospitals, for children hospitals around the world.

[01:08:30] Because when you're a parent going into that environment, you, you're just thinking about

[01:08:37] your kid.

[01:08:37] You need to find this place.

[01:08:39] Your child needs assistance in some way.

[01:08:42] That's why you're there.

[01:08:43] So I think that at work when people are going through cancer, right?

[01:08:49] Caregivers.

[01:08:50] So I think those types of tools are very helpful.

[01:08:53] And I thought you could also integrate things like a meditation app that would also help

[01:08:59] people while they're waiting.

[01:09:00] So you could really give them experience and maybe give them a free coffee token or something.

[01:09:05] I tell you, yeah.

[01:09:06] But there's a whole thing about, I think about people and their using stuff and their environment,

[01:09:11] not just something that's going to razzle and dazzle them.

[01:09:15] That's the fun part with the virtual part.

[01:09:17] The medical, yeah.

[01:09:18] But the other part is, yeah.

[01:09:19] Yeah.

[01:09:19] So totally two different separate things, but both using AR, both use different technology

[01:09:24] and software.

[01:09:26] So anyway, I just wanted to share that other part.

[01:09:28] Yeah.

[01:09:28] This was what I was talking about, like creativity and technology.

[01:09:31] So we've, we've gone through a whole spectrum and even came to the medical part of things where

[01:09:36] we're saying that, look, you can even help people that, you know, have all sorts of problems in

[01:09:44] their lives, you know, who can use this technology, you know, it's incredible.

[01:09:50] So you can, you can do anything, you know, with technology these days and it's, it's just

[01:09:56] kind of like focusing on those things.

[01:09:58] So one of the things I wanted to ask, ask you B is how do you manage your downtime?

[01:10:04] Because I consider you're very cerebral, you know, so what do you do for fun?

[01:10:10] What do I do for fun?

[01:10:12] Well, I really like going for long walks on the seawall.

[01:10:17] I'm really fortunate enough where I live.

[01:10:19] I live near the ocean and one of the most beautiful parts of Canada and near the Stanley

[01:10:25] Park.

[01:10:26] And it's kind of like, it's like a peninsula.

[01:10:29] It's like a rainforest.

[01:10:30] So I call that kind of, you know, I really love walking through there.

[01:10:35] It gives me a lot of grounding, especially in front of a computer a lot.

[01:10:39] What I like also doing is I do watercolors and paints.

[01:10:44] I try to balance out doing technical stuff with tactile and not really getting caught up

[01:10:52] on being perfect.

[01:10:54] It's just more for, for giggles and not to become, you know, the next Da Vinci or whatever.

[01:11:02] I focus that.

[01:11:04] Keeping you relaxed.

[01:11:05] I see clients.

[01:11:07] So, and I cook my own food.

[01:11:09] I keep, I'm really simple, but I really love to travel.

[01:11:13] I really love the UK.

[01:11:15] Yeah.

[01:11:15] I love seeing you.

[01:11:17] It was so, it was fun.

[01:11:19] Yeah.

[01:11:20] So I save up all my kind of going out for dinners when I travel.

[01:11:24] Right.

[01:11:24] And I'm always on the hunt for the best curry.

[01:11:26] So like when I'm in New York, I know I have a place and I have a few in London that is

[01:11:30] so good.

[01:11:31] I'm just, I have friends that like every time I go.

[01:11:34] So next time I, when I see you next year, we're going to have to go for something.

[01:11:37] I would love it, Bea.

[01:11:39] I would absolutely love it.

[01:11:41] So do you kind of have, okay, of course you have, because you've actually given a list

[01:11:46] of people that inspired you.

[01:11:47] So I'm not, I was going to ask that question, but you've given us a list of so many names.

[01:11:51] I'm not going to ask that question anymore.

[01:11:53] So now we're coming to the end of the podcast.

[01:11:57] Is there anything else that I haven't asked you that you want to say before I ask my last

[01:12:02] question?

[01:12:05] I think we've covered all of the bases, haven't we?

[01:12:08] I think so.

[01:12:10] I think so.

[01:12:11] What I appreciate is this opportunity as a mature woman in tech.

[01:12:19] I just want to reinforce that I've met so many cool people.

[01:12:26] When you're doing what you're supposed to be doing, your inner light glows and it attracts

[01:12:34] others that are like you and I, if I, I just really get upset when I hear when people go,

[01:12:43] I'm this age and it's over for me.

[01:12:45] And I'm like, well, if that's what you're telling yourself, speak for yourself.

[01:12:49] That's what's not happening for me.

[01:12:52] I do what I want.

[01:12:53] We're going to do it with our Zima frames.

[01:12:57] Yeah.

[01:12:58] Like I'll be my walker, right?

[01:13:00] You know, go on.

[01:13:02] But, you know, like most people, you got to have a bounce back factor.

[01:13:07] I'd say for all those mature women in tech here, you have all that experience, what I

[01:13:13] talked about, like in the waiting room and all that, like for me, is that we have so much

[01:13:22] to offer beyond a layer.

[01:13:25] Like nothing wrong with those young people.

[01:13:27] We need them.

[01:13:28] Right.

[01:13:28] And they inspire.

[01:13:29] And I want to be around that kind of energy and intelligence and talent.

[01:13:33] They're so out there.

[01:13:34] But the thing that I bring is this many years on this planet and being a caregiver and being

[01:13:42] a student, being a mother, being a wife, being all these different things.

[01:13:46] And I can contribute that little kind of whimsical thing.

[01:13:50] To your city world.

[01:13:51] You know, to your whole world.

[01:13:53] And all people can, not just women, but anybody.

[01:13:57] Right.

[01:13:57] So I just want to encourage people just to say, have fun.

[01:14:01] If it really means to you, just keep going at it.

[01:14:05] Be curious.

[01:14:05] Go try to find other people online.

[01:14:07] Follow them.

[01:14:08] What do they talk about?

[01:14:10] That's what I did.

[01:14:10] And it's like, I want to hang around people in this digital space that are really passionate

[01:14:15] about moving the needle forward, but also have a conscience and value that align with my

[01:14:20] own.

[01:14:20] And those people that I shared, they do.

[01:14:23] So I would never say, I'll never send you.

[01:14:26] I'm actually really excited about going to go and look for those people.

[01:14:31] Yeah.

[01:14:32] Yeah.

[01:14:33] That's it.

[01:14:34] So where can people, our listeners connect with you?

[01:14:37] Or if you're on YouTube, once I've uploaded the videos, you'll be seeing B, you know, where

[01:14:44] can they connect with you?

[01:14:45] Where is the best place?

[01:14:46] I think you mentioned X a lot.

[01:14:48] So you're kind of.

[01:14:49] I'm Interactive B there.

[01:14:51] Interactive B.

[01:14:52] And everywhere else, I am Interactive B Media.

[01:14:56] Okay.

[01:14:58] So I'm on TikTok, which we'll have there.

[01:15:00] They'll just have a few of my geospatials that you'll see.

[01:15:04] Yeah.

[01:15:05] I want to go see that one.

[01:15:06] Yeah.

[01:15:06] Project that I did.

[01:15:08] Yeah.

[01:15:08] That'll be good.

[01:15:09] I'll go to TikTok and go have a look.

[01:15:11] So guys, if you're, you know, you have anything that you want to create and you listen to us

[01:15:18] talk for, I think we've talked over an hour, over an hour, you know?

[01:15:23] So if you want anything that you think B can do for you, hit her up and ask her and she'll

[01:15:30] be more than happy to talk to you.

[01:15:33] You know, I'll be talking to her as well.

[01:15:34] So thank you so much for attending this podcast.

[01:15:38] I loved, loved talking to you, you know?

[01:15:42] And thank you so much for coming to Talking Tech with Creative Podcast.

[01:15:48] Thank you, Stella.

[01:15:49] This was a great pleasure.

[01:15:50] I thank you for giving people a platform for their voice and to share their stories and

[01:15:55] to share about what's coming up in the technology.

[01:15:58] And I just think that's fascinating.

[01:16:01] And I think you have a lot of ideas that, you know, you just, you're just getting started.

[01:16:07] Everybody better be watching this space because Stella's just getting started.

[01:16:11] And I'm waiting for your own podcast as well.

[01:16:13] You know, I know you've got ideas around your podcast.

[01:16:16] So I'm excited as well.

[01:16:18] Thanks, B.

[01:16:18] Thank you.

[01:16:20] Thank you.