In this compelling episode of “Talking Tech with Creative podcast ” host Stella Oni sits down with Yetunde Asika, a dynamic leader and advocate for social justice, to explore the transformative power of technology, law, and innovation across Africa. Yetunde, who wears many hats as a mother, social justice activist, and CEO of the African Leadership Council, shares her inspiring journey and insights on how AI and legal tech are reshaping the continent’s legal landscape. Yetunde discusses her work with the African Leadership Council, her passion for philanthropy, and her commitment to advancing democracy and equality. She also delves into her involvement with global human rights initiatives, including the George Floyd campaign and efforts to support communities affected by systemic injustices worldwide. The conversation also touches on the importance of mentorship, particularly in empowering women and fostering leadership. Yetunde emphasises the need for intentionality in creating inclusive spaces and the role of technology in democratising access to justice.
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Music.
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Hi everyone, welcome to Talking Tech with Creatives podcast,
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a podcast diving deep into the intersection of technology and creativity.
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I'm Stella One. Join me as renowned experts from different industries share
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their innovative journeys, great tips and insights.
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As an author with a passion for crime, food, culture and tech,
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I've always believed in the transformative power of technology,
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especially for emerging economies in Africa.
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Yetunde Asika, our guest, is
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the COO of the African Leadership Council and co-chair of Bandung Africa.
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Her vast experience spans law, strategic planning, and advocacy.
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With a career dedicated to advancing democracy and equality,
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Yetunde brings a wealth of knowledge from her time on U40Y advisory panel,
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her legal practice, and her passionate work in international human rights.
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Discover her inspirational journey and insight into empowering communities and
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fostering leadership in our exclusive interview.
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I have a quote from you today that I found on Amazon's Watch magazine.
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She says, you have to have a lot to bring to the table and you can only get
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that by loving what you do.
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So I'm quite excited to know more about you, Yitunde. Tell us more about yourself and what you do.
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Okay, well, I'm delighted to be here. Thank you for having me.
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My name is Yitunde Esika, and I wear quite a few hats.
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I'm first a mother, I'm a wife, I'm a social justice activist,
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I'm a legal professional, and like you said already, I am CEO of the African Leadership Council.
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I also chair a climate change foundation
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and a few other foundations my big
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love really is philandering i hold a strong belief in commonwealth public value
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and i've been described as a non-partisan social activist for justice and equality
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i'm also a an afro-centric pan-african,
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inspires others to create wealth and thrive for greatness.
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Fantastic. Tell us more, I want to seize a little bit from what you do,
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because not all of us have that kind of legal background.
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So when you talk about, you know, like the human rights and that aspect of your
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work, can you just tell us a little bit more about it and how you work in communities? Sure.
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Sorry, repeat the question again. You said how I work with communities.
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So, yeah, so I'm just talking about community.
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So with your work in social justice, can you tell us just a little bit more about it?
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OK, well, we don't really work generally with me, with communities.
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We do a lot of global work.
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So, for example, I'm also vice president of the National Board of the Society of Black Lawyers.
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And we form a community with Bandung Africa and some other organizations globally,
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like Society of Black Lawyers, Congressional Black Offices and the National Bar Association.
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Association and then with some big personalities
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and individuals like Al Sharpton or
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the big human rights lawyer Benjamin Crump
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and then also members of the MPs in England and government in the US and what
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we do with social justice is we do big things anything that's big so for social
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justice I don't really work with communities.
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We try and do things like NSAR's George Floyd campaign, what was happening in
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Morocco, Gaza, the Russian war.
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So that's the kind of social justice work that I do.
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Okay so because i know you do a bit of traveling as
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well with it so have you got a kind of
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like i mean and i know those kind of work are confidential but have you got
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a kind of example of the kind of social justice you would have done i know you
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mentioned judge floyd is there any other one that's here yes that's a big one
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we also do stuff with the mao mao community which is the kenyan community,
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the tea community, the land rights issues,
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social justice issues in Kenya.
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NSAR, as I said, again, was a big one. Gaza, we do petitions to the United Nations.
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During the Ukraine war, what was happening in Morocco, a lot of Black people,
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Nigerians, people of African descent were stuck and had problems.
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We did a lot of social justice around there. So those are specific examples
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that we've sort of petitioned the UN.
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We're most successful with George Floyd. Our petition was what President Biden
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used as his reform agenda that he signed, his reform agenda that he signed in 2022, May of 2022.
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Wow so just tell us well give us give us a bit of background about yourself
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like i mean like i what started you of who were your influences you know like
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i know from your parents and how you go into law,
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Okay, my parents had everything to do with it. My father always made us believe
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that we were the greatest and we could do anything we wanted.
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I think his absolute faith in his children was all the encouragement that we
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needed to pursue whatever it was that we wanted to do and also to do it well.
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Just because we believed that we could, and we often did, and that's what happened with children.
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My parents encouraged us to follow our passions, whatever it was,
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We wanted to do what we were allowed to do it.
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Now, in terms of the law, I think I was always born with a natural flair for the law.
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So now in terms of the law, I think I was always born with a natural flair for it.
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Anything to do with the law always just came naturally to me.
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I was always deeply interested in jurisprudence and I had a commitment to do what was right.
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Human rights and justice and a
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love for dismantling the systemic barriers now
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in terms of my influences i would say that
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anybody who had the the guts who dared
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to challenge the status quo yeah they
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were the ones that influenced me so so to speak i drew influence from
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the the people who
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had grit and determination they sort of lit
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the torch that fueled my journey we know about
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the usual greats I admired anyone who stood
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up for justice but then
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there were the not so obvious people of our time like I
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really admire people like Dave Chappelle or Cat
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Williams I think they're brilliant they're really yeah
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it's really interesting if you listen to what they
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have to say I they're brilliant
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people so those have kind of influenced my journey
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so to yeah yeah and i mean like most a lot of people actually i've got so many
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questions but i want to tease something out because a lot of people kind of
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like you know stay local actually when it comes to law maybe they will practice
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within their kind of like community or within their,
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country on everything what made you decide to go to have that kind of like overview and the global.
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Span of your work what made you decide to actually go that the way you've gone
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as opposed to just practicing within your country.
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Well i i kind of started my
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career in the uk so i went to school in the uk and i began my career in the
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uk so that already introduced me to the world of law from that side of the pond
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and and And then I worked for the United Nations.
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And for the tribunal, the International Criminal Tribunal Rwanda.
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So I worked with that, and that also allowed me to travel and to see more social
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justice, human rights on a global scale.
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That's an international forum and an international state.
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And then because of my work I did with the Society of Black Lawyers,
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I got the opportunity when I was really young to travel to the States to join
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them for those conferences and make those connections and meet those people
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and really understand how the law works on that side of the world and build relationships there.
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And that's where my international sort of global love for justice stemmed from and I got into it.
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Yeah, because it's quite, I mean, like, I really like that because it's quite
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unusual, you know, I haven't met many people like you.
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So I just wanted to ask as an advocate for human rights and justice what kind
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of changes do you want to see I know that that is huge but just narrow it down
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to one or two something you'd like to actually see you know, happen.
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What kind of changes do I want to see happen what kind of changes do I want
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to see so picture this a world where human rights are not just respected but
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are celebrated universally I would love to experience a world where everyone,
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especially women, can unleash their full potential and flourish.
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We need to create inclusive spaces and provide equal opportunities for everybody.
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That's the kind of world I'd like to live in.
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Yeah, I love that world. Seriously. And so, actually, that actually leads to my next question.
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You know, how do we empower more women to achieve the best of themselves?
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Because women have different challenges out there.
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You know, I can't even name, you know, there's so many out there.
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So what do we do to get them to be empowered?
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The best ways to empower women
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is to create spaces that are not just inclusive on
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paper but also in practice mentorship is
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always a good empowerment tool for shattering those glass
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ceilings so i would say the secret sauce for
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empowering women is mentorship we also
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need to remember that empowering women is not just
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a solo act it's something that everybody needs
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to play their part both men and women equally
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and also i i said women in general now i'm going to nail it down narrow it down
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to black women because black women face a specific challenge specific challenges
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so what do you say for black women what do we do as black women.
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If you're saying Black women globally, because there's Black women in Africa
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and Black women abroad, Black women globally, it's the same thing.
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You just need to be more intentional about, I think everybody realises and knows
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that women's input in society and decision-making is vital. I think at this
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stage, that's one of the arguments.
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It's not whether women should be on the table or should be allowed on the table
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or what value they bring. we already agree, I think, in the first place,
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that women need to be at the table.
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So it's about just being intentional about doing it purposefully and actually making it a practice.
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It's not just a solo act. It's not just for women alone to be the ones to push
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themselves and to get themselves there.
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It's for everybody to have a clear part in it and take part in making sure that
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women have a seat at the table. And just be intentional about it.
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If you have a board where it's full of men, then there's something wrong.
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You need to look at the board and say that, hang on a second,
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why are there no women here? What have I missed?
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Because sometimes people don't realize that when you are intentional and you
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know that women add value, so much value, then you will look at yourself and
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want the best for your organization.
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And whether it's a firm or any firm, any industry.
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When you look around yourself and you don't see enough women at the table,
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then you have to move out. So I wonder why.
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And then go back to the drawing board and make sure you get them in.
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Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And it's putting these things into practice.
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It's not just saying it, is it?
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So with your background in law, I'm going into AI now because AI comes up a lot in so many things.
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How do you see AI impacting the legal landscape, especially in Africa?
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How do you see it? For me, artificial intelligence in law is akin to a legal
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assistant with a PhD in efficiency.
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That's the best way I could describe it. So, imagine streamlined legal research,
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allowing lawyers to delve deeply into case law and precedents more efficiently.
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And therefore enhancing decision-making.
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I mean, we actually are witnessing the emergence of a new legal frontier right before our eyes.
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And to bring it into Africa, where access to legal services can be a bit of
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a challenge, AI can be a transformative force. It really can.
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It acts as a formidable equalizer with the potential to democratize legal information,
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making it more accessible to the general public.
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And I'll just say this last bit. Technology has already transformed the way
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lawyers work and how people access justice.
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In the global law, for example, they're already doing that.
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People attend court by Zoom. Court by Zoom? Wow.
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Yes. And they deal with traffic offenses using sort of like a tick system.
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So this is like the difference between Dropbox when you're applying for an American
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visa as opposed to having to attend personally for an interview.
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So only seeing it there is just about adopting it everywhere.
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And, you know, it may not seem like that for me today.
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We all know how to use Zoom, but the issue is about getting access to this technology.
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So that actually goes to my next question, which is how can African countries
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leverage artificial intelligence and legal tech to address systemic legal challenges
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and promote access to justice?
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This because this is what we're talking about now we're talking about
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this access this equality you know it's
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not equal for everyone you're right.
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Okay so tech is a game changer under any
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circumstances it is transformative so imagine
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a tech-driven africa where education health care
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commerce and the law at every everyone's fingertips
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we will be a formidable force a force you
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reckon with yeah if we take advantage of
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technology and we do it right the world
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can't hold us back yeah see what we've
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done with fintechs and startups and our
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political example so anyway back
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to your question african countries can harness
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this transformative potential of ai by
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starting with an intention with an intention integration
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of ai into legal education empowering
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the next generation with digital literacy
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fundamental and this is training legal professionals in ai applications and
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creating policies that facilitate the response the responsible adoption of ai
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legal systems and legal processes so in terms of legal tech tech,
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countries will need to adopt a collaborative ecosystem where governments, legal practitioners.
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Tech innovators, innovators, and policymakers, they work hand in hand to unlock
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AI's potential in addressing systemic legal challenges faced by Africa.
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And this will ultimately promote to create access to justice and make it more accessible.
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It's a journey. The destination is so worth the effort.
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It's a journey. It is. You know, and we...
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Let me see. I'm just trying to, because I think you've asked us all the questions, yeah?
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I was just kind of like looking at maybe the challenges, because we've talked
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about how this, you know, that it should happen.
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But do you think it will happen? Because, you know, there's already,
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if I talk about, say, the West, for example, I'm based in the UK.
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I'm in technology I know the advances and I know the discussions I know the
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kind of like dialogues that are going on around artificial intelligence,
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in the West and I don't know do
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you think the same thing is happening in Africa do you
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think that those dialogues are taking place those discussions
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to make things happen or not definitely
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there's dialogue we just concluded the
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Omniverse Summit summit last week which which which
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summit is that the omniverse the omniverse summit oh
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omniverse yes i heard about that yeah exactly a
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week ago yesterday and yes so i know for sure i had a panel there where we had
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ai and the law ai and legal system ai and legal tech and the conversation centered
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around regulation and standardization so there is conversation and we have legal tech in Nigeria, we have.
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Where, in fact, a new one just came up yesterday, I can't remember the name, but there are.
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There are conversations, there have to be serious conversations about it because
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there's so many challenges and risks of biases.
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Biases more than anything else, and risk of people not getting fair trial or,
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there's so many challenges around AI.
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So I'll answer your question. that there are conversations that are going on about it.
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It's something that we've not hit the nail on the head yet. We need to have a lot more.
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AI and technology is moving at such a fast pace, it's actually humanly impossible
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to keep up with that pace.
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So we just have to do our best to keep having these conversations and addressing
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these issues, these challenges.
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These conversations are happening here on the continent, they're happening here in Nigeria.
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We need to have more of them and take it to the next level.
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That's fantastic. So I'm just... So if we're doing the kind of blue sky thinking here.
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So if you were president, what kind of changes would you like to advocate in
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Nigeria and Africa as a whole?
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I'm taking it away from AI now.
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Okay. Well, that's a thought-provoking question, but it's an easy one nevertheless.
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I would first focus on,
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I think, education reform and keep technology
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at the forefront of that platform for me
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to equip our youth and our children with the skills to be able to compete globally
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so education would be the first thing obviously gender equality is always my
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thing so that would i'll be more intentional more focused on that i will also
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cast president i was president.
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Educational reform, gender equality. I'll be more intentional about sort of
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how we, the conversation around how we see ourselves.
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So making sure the youth at the moment, especially the creative economy,
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not just the youth, the creative economy in general, already doing a really
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good job about our narrative, pushing our narrative, showcasing what we have.
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I will do so more internally for us here, for people who do not see themselves
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or don't see us Nigerians as anything, which a lot of us don't feel that way.
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So I'll make sure I push that narrative, let people know who we are,
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who our culture is, let us understand our history and understand the greatness within us.
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There is, and a lot of people don't know it, forgotten it.
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So as presidents, that would be very important to me.
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And lastly, perhaps I'll have a blockchain coin backed by gold,
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a Pan-African blockchain backed by gold.
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I don't know if that's going to work Immutable That's right,
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No borders Try and open borders within Africa Inclusive That would be my agenda
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Yes indeed for president.
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I'm all for you,
00:22:07
So Now you recently received a chief density title From Olu I'm your Oba,
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but I might pronounce this wrong.
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Olu of Orile Ilao in Ogun State.
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Oba Olushegun Magrego. What is your title and how do you hope to use your influence
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as a chief in grassroots communities?
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Okay. Well, my title is Otun Yalode.
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You need to repeat it again because we didn't hear. Otun Yalode.
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Otun Yalode. Yeah. and this means.
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This is also translated to Obaobiri, which means king of women.
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King of women. It's a very, very high chieftaincy title.
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It's the highest female chieftaincy title in Yoruba land. Wow.
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They're making decisions with the council of chiefs.
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So it's usually given to people to women who
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have strong political and social
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economic power and access because
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they're supposed to use that for the women benefit the women to represent women
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and any kinder yeah that's what the title is and did you have a follow-up question
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i didn't So how are you going to use your influence as a chief in grassroots communities?
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Okay, so I ensure that the voices of women resonates in the highest levels of leadership.
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And for me, the trifecta is education, health and empowerment of women.
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I think when you have those things, when women are empowered in that way,
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children are automatically empowered. Yeah.
00:24:05
And that's what I've been doing. That's what I do anyway. So the title kind
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of fits the personality.
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And we do empowerment programs and initiatives focused on women,
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one called Women Trade Connect that's going on in Ilao at the moment, currently. Perfect.
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And it's about teaching women and helping them forge connections and how to
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be collaborative in growing their business because that's the best way to grow their business.
00:24:32
It's funny, but you may not realize or make the connection that,
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okay, the woman who makes a dress, she knows the woman in the market who sells it.
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She knows the woman in the market, you know, the tailor who sews the clothes.
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You know, that synergy and connection and the network.
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Between women and making us understand that it's with
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the collaboration that we do better we grow much better
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economically we do better yeah and to recognize
00:25:00
that and use that tool as a force to
00:25:04
grow our businesses fantastic so
00:25:08
we're kind of
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winding down now and it's been a fantastic interview
00:25:14
i've really enjoyed it especially as i'm advocating for
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you to be president now so i
00:25:21
am absolutely how do
00:25:25
you balance your various commitments and family life because
00:25:28
i know how busy busy you are
00:25:31
it took a long time for us to get to this interview that's an
00:25:37
eternal question a juggling act
00:25:40
of balance well it's it's it's
00:25:43
about just prioritizing what works for you
00:25:46
so for me balance doesn't
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even mean equal it means balance you know so for me what i prioritize is i prioritize
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my family my daughter my family life that's what is priority for me and i so
00:26:04
that's so i prioritize that above everything else.
00:26:07
But it's sometimes okay to prioritize work. Like you just said,
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over the last couple of months, I've just been, you know, so, I have so much to do.
00:26:17
It's okay to prioritize that at that point as well.
00:26:22
Having self-care.
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Delegating and just being easy on yourself
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not doing things because you
00:26:30
feel that's what other people want you to do what
00:26:33
they say that is a sure recipe for failure
00:26:37
as bridges yeah i understand
00:26:40
and i like the idea of that yes i
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love what you said there because sometimes women feel guilty
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about oh you know i'm not putting family first or i'm
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putting work first so you know that balancing but what you're saying
00:26:53
is that whatever is priority at that time
00:26:56
is what you use to achieve balance so
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no need for you to feel guilty or anything
00:27:02
just sit down and examine what you're doing and see
00:27:05
how you balance those fantastic great answer
00:27:08
now for my last question what is
00:27:12
your hobby what gives you joy i love
00:27:17
the travel that's what
00:27:20
experiencing other cultures
00:27:24
other languages it's it's it's what makes me happy sort of where i find my resting
00:27:30
place where i find peace where i can rejuvenate my body and my soul traveling
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and i usually travel to places that give me that so fantastic i wouldn't say
00:27:40
traveling to london would do that for me for example.
00:27:46
Some parts of the uk yes yeah no it's true it's true yeah so to travel for me
00:27:52
is what is the hobby that i enjoy most yeah okay so what are before you go what
00:27:57
are your favorites some of your favorite destinations i know you've mentioned
00:28:00
parts of the uk in africa by the way okay in,
00:28:06
In Africa, I love East Africa.
00:28:09
I love Tanzania. I love Nairobi. I love Kenya.
00:28:13
Especially in Tanzania, I love Zanzibar. And specifically in Kenya, I love Kampusa.
00:28:21
I love Cape Town, South Africa. Yeah.
00:28:25
And then I wouldn't say I have visited a lot of places on the West Coast in terms of leisure.
00:28:32
But I hear that Belen is beautiful, and I can't wait to get there.
00:28:37
Within Nigeria that I absolutely love. I mean, we have the best waterfalls.
00:28:43
We have the best landscapes. We do, we do, we do.
00:28:46
So in Nigeria as well, I love that. And then I love Southeast Asia as well.
00:28:52
Yeah. yeah that's just globally there are many i
00:28:55
mean that's a really just that's a hard incredible incredible the
00:28:59
incredible spaces i mean i just i've not even been
00:29:01
to never been to saudi arabia but i i started getting interested in travel i've
00:29:08
always loved food i actually write about nigerian food i'm very passionate about
00:29:11
that so i started doing yes i started doing i went to this thing and as saudi
00:29:15
arabia is trying to open up and there's a place called alalula Alula, Alula,
00:29:19
Alula, full of heritage.
00:29:22
And, you know, they want to open it. And I was thinking about Nigeria.
00:29:25
I said, there's so many heritage places in Nigeria that could open up like this.
00:29:30
I was, well, I mean, the ideas were just coming. And I said,
00:29:33
one day, one day, because there's some beautiful spots. Yes.
00:29:39
But, yeah. Thank you. We will open that up. But that side of our country,
00:29:45
our culture, our tourism will open up immensely as an economic source for the country.
00:29:52
But just as for us who are from here to enjoy and to love life and,
00:29:58
you know, spend our own money in our country instead of traveling.
00:30:01
I'd rather do that. That's it, yeah.
00:30:02
We have to put the infrastructure in place that we're able to do that.
00:30:06
Yeah, that's true. It's true. And we have young people like Tayo Aino and Wudemaya
00:30:12
that are showcasing Africa on YouTube.
00:30:15
So if you haven't heard of them, go and see. Tayo Aino, A-I-N-A, and Wudemaya.
00:30:22
So, yes, thank you. Thank you so much for this interview. I really appreciate
00:30:26
it. We had some technical issues, but we did it.
00:30:30
We did it. So thank you very much. Thank you. I enjoyed it.
00:30:36
Music.